What Java IDE do you Use?

Eclipse. its underlying architecture is very clean and well partitioned. Developers respond in timely fashion and discuss issues openly on buglist and forums.

Its RCP is usable to make my own application. It has very few bugs.

_dnoyeBa at 2007-7-28 18:11:10 >

> For me, The Eclipse IDE is the best IDE out there...

I used to think that, in spite of all its memory-hogging and crashes.

Then somebody showed me IntelliJ. Now I won't use anything else. I have a personal license at home so I can never be without it.

%

duffymoa at 2007-7-28 18:11:10 >

Brother will kill brother

Spilling blood across the land

Killing for religion

Something I dont understand

Fools like me,who cross the sea

And come to foreign lands

Ask the sheep,for their beliefs

Do you kill on gods command?

A country thats divided

Surely will not stand

My past erased,no more disgrace

No foolish naive stand

The end is near,its crystal clear

Part of the master plan

Dont look now to israel

It might be your homelands

Holy wars

Upon my podium,as the

Know it all scholar

Down in my seat of judgement

Gavels bang,uphold the law

Up on my soapbox,a leader

Out to change the world

Down in my pulpit as the holler

Than-thou-could-be-messenger of god

Wage the war on organized crime

Sneak attacks,repel down the rocks

Behind the lines

Some people risk to employ me

Some people live to destroy me

Either way they die

They killed my wife,and my baby

With hopes to enslave me

First mistake...last mistake|

Paid by the alliance,to slay all the giants

Next mistake...no more mistakes|

Fill the cracks in,with judicial granite

Because I dont say it,dont mean I aint

Thinkin it

Next thing you know,theyll take my thoughts away

I know what I said,now I must scream of the overdose

And the lack of mercy killings

georgemca at 2007-7-28 18:11:10 >

> I know the OP is trolling but here goes anyway...

>

Or clueless.

> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned NetBeans, it's

That's because most people agree that it's a terrible IDE.

Poor performance, unintuitive, unstable, poor featureset.

jwentinga at 2007-7-28 18:11:10 >

> From all *freeware* IDE's, Eclipse is definitely the

> best. I've tried Netbeans (unstable and ugly/bad

> look-n-feel), also Studio Creator (slow and not

not surprising as it's Notbeans with some plugins that make it even slower and more unstable :)

> True, Eclipse is memory-hogging, but just take care

> that you've enough memory (at least 2GB RAM) and

> Eclipse is happy. Crashes occurs very rare. Maybe

> because I've a fast multiprocessor PC with an ocean

> of memory space.

>

Also depends on the size of your projects.

When things hit a few thousand files Eclipse starts to struggle, especially if you haven't given it more resources than the default startup scripts allocate.

Same with all IDEs of course (if you can give them more resources at all).

> payware IDE's I only have experience with WebSphere

> Studio Application Developer. It's a hell .. But

> that's my job ;)

That's Eclipse 2 with some plugins, or have they moved towards an Eclipse 3 based version by now?

jwentinga at 2007-7-28 18:11:10 >

Yeah, don't make the mistake of thinking that WSAD is "pluggable" because it's based on Eclipse. It's a hack and you cannot simply do things like say upgrade the version of Eclipse in WSAD. That said, IBM hacks everything.

SoulTech2012a at 2007-7-28 18:11:10 >

Can anyone share some descriptions of Eclipse Plugins that they have developed?

Personally, I have never used Eclipse for Java development and understand that its primary benefit is that it is good for plugin development.

Is the ability to create IDE plugins really significant? Aside from the developers working on the Eclipse system of course.

JBuilder and NetBeans, when hosted on strong machines, have more than enough features to enable the business-application focused developer to work efficiently. Moreover, there are tons of existing features already. I never saw the need to take the time to design an IDE plugin, too busy with designing business apps.

/>

GhostRadioTwoa at 2007-7-28 18:11:11 >

> > Yeah, don't make the mistake of thinking that WSAD

> is

> > "pluggable" because it's based on Eclipse. It's a

> > hack and you cannot simply do things like say

> upgrade

> > the version of Eclipse in WSAD. That said, IBM

> hacks

> > everything.

>

> I don't know Thing One about WSAD, but I do

> know that Eclipse 3 was basically a complete

> overhaul. The plugin mechanism moved from Eclipse's

> old proprietary one to Eclipse's implementation of

> OSGi (Equinox) so, no, that upgrade wouldn't work at

> all. Pre-Eclipse 3 plugins simply won't have anything

> to plug into on 3

IOW they changed from one proprietary system to another :)

Of course Eclipse is IBMs brainchild, so any weirdness in it is hardly surprising.

jwentinga at 2007-7-28 18:11:16 >

> > > Yeah, don't make the mistake of thinking that

> WSAD

> > is

> > > "pluggable" because it's based on Eclipse. It's

> a

> > > hack and you cannot simply do things like say

> > upgrade

> > > the version of Eclipse in WSAD. That said, IBM

> > hacks

> > > everything.

> >

> > I don't know Thing One about WSAD, but I do

> > know that Eclipse 3 was basically a complete

> > overhaul. The plugin mechanism moved from

> Eclipse's

> > old proprietary one to Eclipse's implementation of

> > OSGi (Equinox) so, no, that upgrade wouldn't work

> at

> > all. Pre-Eclipse 3 plugins simply won't have

> anything

> > to plug into on 3

>

> IOW they changed from one proprietary system to

> another :)

Heh heh I suppose so. Although, since it isn't their spec, it's not quite so proprietarty. From what I've heard though, Equinox isn't the most complete OSGi impl around, by some way

> Of course Eclipse is IBMs brainchild, so any

> weirdness in it is hardly surprising.

georgemca at 2007-7-28 18:11:16 >

> > > Can anyone share some descriptions of Eclipse

> > Plugins that they have developed?

> >

> > I worked on an agile process management tool that

> was

> > entirely based around Eclipse RCP. I've written

> > plugins that allow us to launch UI components

> we're

> > developing inside a nice Eclipse view, various

> > wizards for generating classes specific to our

> > problem domain, etc

>

> Thanks. That sounds really cool. You use these

> plugins to speed up the coding process and they are

> specific to your applications.

Exactly. Currently I'm working on extending the new class wizard. We've got a whole hierarchy of Junit extensions specific to our application, but you have to know the hierarchy to use it. A nice wizard will relieve us - and future members of the team - of that burden

> As I said, the RCP can be used for exactly that -

> keep you busy designing the business end of your

> app

>

> I'm going to download Eclipse with the BIRT system

> (http://www.eclipse.org/birt/phoenix/). It looks real

> fancy :o) Anyone with tips or issues with the BIRT,

> please share.

>

> Thanks.

I don't know anything about BIRT, unfortunately. We worked closely with the BIRT team in my last place, but I wasn't actually involved in that at all

georgemca at 2007-7-28 18:11:17 >

> I take issue with your taking issue. I have used

why are your personally insulted by someone having problems with Eclipse?

> would be on buglist, but when one shows up they get

> addressed quickly. The newsgroup is full if friendly

> helpful people.

>

HAH!

> I used RCP for so many years now. My application

> works great. Eclipse crashes on my perhaps once

> every 6 months. I use it daily for hours on end. My

HAH! Used to crash on me every half hour or so at one point (though it got better after tweaking the default JVM settings which are way inadequate for large projects because of severe leaks in Eclipse itself causing PermGen memory to fill up rapidly, a fault that was acknowledged years ago but never fixed).

> The only crashes I experienced were related to things

> that required JVM parameter adjustments.

>

yes, which wouldn't be needed but for bugs in Eclipse.

> I recommend Eclipse RCP to anyone that needs an

> application development platform.

>

Quite useless. Our applications all run inside application servers, RCP won't do a thing there.

jwentinga at 2007-7-28 18:11:17 >

> > I take issue with your taking issue. I have used

>

> why are your personally insulted by someone having

> problems with Eclipse?

How is it personal? I simply said the same thing said to me.

>

> > I used RCP for so many years now. My application

> > works great. Eclipse crashes on my perhaps once

> > every 6 months. I use it daily for hours on end.

> My

>

> HAH! Used to crash on me every half hour or so at one

> point (though it got better after tweaking the

> default JVM settings which are way inadequate for

> large projects because of severe leaks in Eclipse

> itself causing PermGen memory to fill up rapidly, a

> fault that was acknowledged years ago but never

> fixed).

>

To bad it crashed on you. That is not a problem I have and I used it daily. I even started using it at work for my c projects. Very stable.

> > The only crashes I experienced were related to

> things

> > that required JVM parameter adjustments.

> >

> yes, which wouldn't be needed but for bugs in

> Eclipse.

>

The default RAM size allted by the JVM is not always enough for large projects. If you don't know that then no wonder it crashes on you. Likely with out of memory errors. Basic java.

> > I recommend Eclipse RCP to anyone that needs an

> > application development platform.

> >

> Quite useless. Our applications all run inside

> application servers, RCP won't do a thing there.

Your showing your true colors now. RCP and application servers are completely different things. Highlighting this fact as a knock against Eclipse RCP is rediculous.

_dnoyeBa at 2007-7-28 18:11:17 >

> To bad it crashed on you. That is not a problem I

> have and I used it daily. I even started using it at

> work for my c projects. Very stable.

This seems to be luck, or something. I see an equal amount of people having and not having crashes on a regular basis

> Your showing your true colors now. RCP and

> application servers are completely different things.

> Highlighting this fact as a knock against Eclipse

> RCP is rediculous.

I think JW was commenting on the fact that you recommended Eclipse RCP to anyone who needed an application development platform, which is quite vague and largely inaccurate. It's useless in the case of a web app, for instance. In the case of the need for a rich client outwith a web browser, I'd be inclined to agree with you. It would take a team quite a lot of time and effort to build all the windowing, menus editors and suchlike that RCP just gives you out of the box.

The problems with the Eclipse IDE are one thing, but these do not necessarily apply to the platform itself, or to the RCP, which I found to be noticably more stable than the IDE

georgemca at 2007-7-28 18:11:17 >

> I'm surprised to see such an IBM backlash. I figured

> people would just use whatever worked best for them.

> Share their experiences and let everyone decide for

> themselves. Instead folks intend to make IBM look

> like their code is trash.

Nope, IBM is pretty good about making their own stuff look like trash. They don't need anyone's help.

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duffymoa at 2007-7-28 18:11:17 >

> I'm surprised to see such an IBM backlash. I figured

> people would just use whatever worked best for them.

And most people find out the hard way that IBM products aren't it :)

> Share their experiences and let everyone decide for

> themselves. Instead folks intend to make IBM look

> like their code is trash.

>

From personal experience with IBM code, that sure seems to be the way (that it is trash)...

Maybe not all of it, but enough to be a good indication of an overall trend.

jwentinga at 2007-7-28 18:11:22 >

> I'm surprised to see such an IBM backlash. I figured

> people would just use whatever worked best for them.

> Share their experiences and let everyone decide for

> themselves. Instead folks intend to make IBM look

> like their code is trash.

I don't see that those two phenomena are mutually exclusive

> I worked on netbeans first. And I contributed

> patches and worked to help make it better when I

> found bugs. In comparison to Eclipse architecture,

> Netbeans architecture was at the time inferior.

>

> I don't know where it stands now.

I think the same still stands. Eclipse plugins don't necessarily have to contribute to Eclipse, it's a fairly complete impl. of OSGi

For the record, I'm quite a fan of Eclipse, in it's many guises, but I don't see the point in getting evangelical about it. It's far from problem-free

georgemca at 2007-7-28 18:11:22 >