Java Vs. .NET
Recently my company decided to take on a huge project in converting our existing application based on Java technology to .NET technologies.
This project is still in the planning stages and very little has been communicated to other developers like myself, so I really don't have a clear understanding behind why my company is deciding to move in this direction.
I have heard things through the grapevine and since I have been trying to formulate a list of potential business reasons for making this kind of change over.
My guess is that customers have been pushing very hard lately to get faster releases and this has been hard on me and the development team as the software is incredibly complex and huge. Somewhere they have come to the conclusion that a .NET application can be developed rapidly, and will also have better performance.
It is my opinion that .NET applications can be developed somewhat faster, especially when building GUI's, however the drawback is a more limited, contained, and restricted path of developing software.
While Java does lack in rapid GUI development, I feel it makes up for this in a greater level of control over ones application, and a plethora of different types of solutions for whatever flavor of project is needed.
What is your fellow opinions on the benefits and drawbacks of .NET as compared to Java? Do you also feel that management at my company is not making an informed wise decision, do you feel they or our customers are prejudiced in some way?
Please share your opinions and personal experiences. I am trying to gauge a high level view.
Better performance ?
It depends on the architecture and the way the application is developed.
If u need better performance use Durex rather ;-) performance guarenteed
> It is my opinion that .NET applications can be
> developed somewhat faster, especially when building
> GUI's
What? Have you used Netbeans or JBuilder?
kajbja at 2007-7-29 16:51:32 >
Management is never doing an informed decision. Just do whatever they want to; as long as they have plans like that you won't be out of work.
> If u need better performance use Durex rather ;-)
> performance guarenteed
Can someone please take this guy back to the kindergarten?
> Recently my company decided to take on a huge project
> in converting our existing application based on Java
> technology to .NET technologies.
Uh, IMHO they really should have very good reasons for changeing EXISTING Java applications to .NET. I don't think you will have faster releases with .NET (well, this depends of course on your build and release processes.)
Just my 2 cents.
-Puce
Pucea at 2007-7-29 16:51:32 >
> Management is never doing an informed decision.
On behalf of "Management", thanks for your vote of confidence. ;op
~
>
> Can someone please take this guy back to the
> kindergarten?
Someone pls... I swear I'll get good marks.. ANd try not to end up with this guys who calls himself "I'm not a programmer"
> >
> > Can someone please take this guy back to the
> > kindergarten?
>
> Someone pls... I swear I'll get good marks.. ANd try
> not to end up with this guys who calls himself "I'm
> not a programmer"
Well, he isn't a programmer, primarily. He knows orders of magnitude more than you do about being a programmer, all the same. Not bad eh
I'm not a programmer, either. It's just what I do for a living. We're not defined by our jobs, are we?
> "I'm not a programmer"
Pardon my French (ha!), but doesn't "Ceci n'est pas un programmeur" mean "This is not..." rather than "I am not..."? Monsieur Rene?
~
> Recently my company decided to take on a huge project
> in converting our existing application based on Java
> technology to .NET technologies.
What a waste of time and money.
> This project is still in the planning stages and very
> little has been communicated to other developers like
> myself, so I really don't have a clear understanding
> behind why my company is deciding to move in this
> direction.
What lousy management, so they decided to migrate to another technology without consulting the developers? I'd start looking for another job.
> I have heard things through the grapevine and since I
> have been trying to formulate a list of potential
> business reasons for making this kind of change
> over.
That's sensible.
> My guess is that customers have been pushing very
> hard lately to get faster releases and this has been
> hard on me and the development team as the software
> is incredibly complex and huge.
Customers tend to do that.
> Somewhere they have
> come to the conclusion that a .NET application can be
> developed rapidly, and will also have better
> performance.
It can't be developed any more rapidly than Java and is not guaranteed to have better performance, it all depends on the context.
For instance if all the developers are experienced Java developers but have no experience with .Net you will indeed develop more slowly, and produce a worse product.
> It is my opinion that .NET applications can be
> developed somewhat faster, especially when building
> GUI's, however the drawback is a more limited,
> contained, and restricted path of developing
> software.
There are several GUI builders for Java, Netbeans has one.
> While Java does lack in rapid GUI development, I feel
> it makes up for this in a greater level of control
> over ones application, and a plethora of different
> types of solutions for whatever flavor of project is
> needed.
I'm sure .Net has just as many solutions to projects as Java does.
> What is your fellow opinions on the benefits and
> drawbacks of .NET as compared to Java? Do you also
> feel that management at my company is not making an
> informed wise decision, do you feel they or our
> customers are prejudiced in some way?
>
> Please share your opinions and personal experiences.
> I am trying to gauge a high level view.
I would say that the learning curve alone would be a discouragement.
Not to mention that you're not really gaining anything that you don't already have in Java.
dwga at 2007-7-29 16:51:32 >
They have existing, working products and want to port them to .NET? I don't see how basically starting again will improve release cycles
> On behalf of "Management", thanks for your vote of
> confidence. ;op
Note that I'm a B. A. of Business Administration myself.
Okay, let's rather say they do make informed decisions, but the value of their information is often dubious.
> Monsieur Rene?
Yep. Lucky those who know Magritte.
What. Am I the only programmer here?
I better change occupation. Maybe I should become a photographer instead.
kajbja at 2007-7-29 16:51:32 >
> What. Am I the only programmer here?
I thought you finally became an insultant? No. con... man. No, got it: consultant?
> I better change occupation. Maybe I should become a
> photographer instead.
I think that's a good idea. Your other website is much nicer. ;)
> Okay, let's rather say they do make informed
> decisions, but the value of their information is
> often dubious.
How is that different from anyone else? That statement's a bit like a horoscope: general enough so as to apply to everyone. :o)
~
> > What. Am I the only programmer here?
>
> I thought you finally became an insultant? No. con...
> man. No, got it: consultant?
No, I finally became a finally. :)
I have always been a consultant :)
>
> > I better change occupation. Maybe I should become
> a
> > photographer instead.
>
> I think that's a good idea. Your other website is
> much nicer. ;)
I have just started publishing some photos on flickr. I'm pretty new to photography but I will start to read a few books about composition etc.
Two photos that I took during my vacation in Spain (last week):
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1208/836209946_0f9b73d870_o.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1296/829078767_2e2132b516_o.jpg
kajbja at 2007-7-29 16:51:36 >
> > It is my opinion that .NET applications can be
> > developed somewhat faster, especially when
> building
> > GUI's
>
> What? Have you used Netbeans or JBuilder?
Ahh... I am glad that you have brought this up because I HAVE used NetBeans and its GUI builder, (Matisse?). I really liked GroupLayout and actually I use it manually nearly for every new project I start. I found it easy to use, however there is one glaring problem that the short sighted can't get past.
That problem is that it generates rows and rows of ugly code within your class files.
If you are a programmer like me, ugly code makes you want to get in there and feng shui. Now I am mature enough to leave well enough alone but to some programmers take the blue highlighted uneditable code as a dare.
Ultimately, Matisse as compared to Visual Studio's GUI builder is relatively the same, however the difference is that Visual Studio goes to GREAT lengths to hide the GUI and display code from the developer.
So from that stand point, out of sight out of mind when it comes to auto generated code.
Is it right? No. Is it fair? Hardly, but it is the perception of customers and NOT the truth which drives the software development industry.
> What. Am I the only programmer here?
>
> I better change occupation. Maybe I should become a
> photographer instead.
You do other things outside of coding, I hope!
I'm a hard-drinkin' fast-drivin' metal-as-fook axe-wieldin' animal love machine. Who also writes code
> Two photos that I took during my vacation in Spain
> (last week):
>
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1208/836209946_0f9b73d8
> 70_o.jpg
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1296/829078767_2e2132b5
> 16_o.jpg
Those are great!
I could see them on a postcard, especially the first one, but I like the second one more.
dwga at 2007-7-29 16:51:36 >
> That problem is that it generates rows and rows of
> ugly code within your class files.
>
> If you are a programmer like me, ugly code makes you
> want to get in there and feng shui. Now I am mature
> enough to leave well enough alone but to some
> programmers take the blue highlighted uneditable code
> as a dare.
Switch to JBuilder in that case. JBuilder uses reflection and generate code that you aren't allowed to touch.
kajbja at 2007-7-29 16:51:36 >
> Those are great!
> I could see them on a postcard, especially the first
> one, but I like the second one more.
Thanks.
The first one might have nice colors, but it has bad composition (I think). The other one has a dark area that I might need to do something with.
...but I will become better, as I said, I'm still a beginner :)
kajbja at 2007-7-29 16:51:36 >
> They have existing, working products and want to port
> them to .NET? I don't see how basically starting
> again will improve release cycles
wishful thinking. It's too slow now, someone has heard about this "new thing" that's supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread, so it must be better right?
Remember when everything had to be XML because that would make it all "portable" a few years ago?
Same thing, senseless decisions about IT infrastructure being made at board level without ever consulting those in the know.
> > > I better change occupation. Maybe I should
> become
> > a
> > > photographer instead.
> >
> > I think that's a good idea. Your other website is
> > much nicer. ;)
>
> I have just started publishing some photos on flickr.
> I'm pretty new to photography but I will start to
> read a few books about composition etc.
>
> Two photos that I took during my vacation in Spain
> (last week):
>
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1208/836209946_0f9b73d8
> 70_o.jpg
> http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1296/829078767_2e2132b5
> 16_o.jpg
Nice work.
Here's some of what I've done over the last few decades.
http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/454.html
> > They have existing, working products and want to
> port
> > them to .NET? I don't see how basically starting
> > again will improve release cycles
>
> wishful thinking. It's too slow now, someone has
> heard about this "new thing" that's supposed to be
> the best thing since sliced bread, so it must be
> better right?
Indeed. What was the best thing before sliced bread?
> Remember when everything had to be XML because that
> would make it all "portable" a few years ago?
> Same thing, senseless decisions about IT
> infrastructure being made at board level without ever
> consulting those in the know.
Yeh. Nobody really understood it for ages. Place I worked, we added an XML input driver, and the number of customers (typical "customer" being a high-end retailer) who thought that meant they could simply point a web browser at it, was phenomenal. XML was apparently like magic beans which just worked as you wanted it to
There must be a whole subset of industry that spends most of it's time - and budget - making zero progress because they're constantly improving and streamlining everything. Paralysis by analysis, squared
> You do other things outside of coding, I hope!
Yes, but I wouldn't say that I'm a chef just because I know how to boil an egg :)
kajbja at 2007-7-29 16:51:36 >
Both platforms have great tools to speed up the development. Also, both platforms provide a great way to write efficient and high-performance enterprise applications.
Neither Java nor .NET are slow by themselves. It's the matter of developers experience. If the developers have more experience in Java than .NET, the Java-based applications certainly are much faster than .NET ones, and vice versa.
By the way, IMHO, well written Java codes are more maintainable than well-written .NET codes. I think they're just wasting their time and money. If the application is not fast, the developers were unable to write a fast one. It's better to spend time and money to train them, rather than developing another slow application from the scratch.
> > You do other things outside of coding, I hope!
>
> Yes, but I wouldn't say that I'm a chef just because
> I know how to boil an egg :)
The exact inverse of many "programmers" attitudes to boiling code!
> What is your fellow opinions on the benefits and
> drawbacks of .NET as compared to Java?
Both have their benefits and drawbacks. Not one is superior to the other. Two different approaches, basically.
In particular, I see a case for .NET in UI (WPF) and workflow .
The two don't have to be exclusive either.
Many companies have a mix of both platforms, with different interoperability scenarios.
>Do you also
> feel that management at my company is not making an
> informed wise decision, do you feel they or our
> customers are prejudiced in some way?
Not sure if customers are prejudiced in any way, since the implementation should be transparent to them. That's the theory, anyway.
As for management & wise decisions, of course they don't always go together, and sometimes a new management team or a new CEO come with preconceived (and not so rational) preferences over one platform versus the other.
> > >
> > > Can someone please take this guy back to the
> > > kindergarten?
> >
> > Someone pls... I swear I'll get good marks.. ANd
> try
> > not to end up with this guys who calls himself
> "I'm
> > not a programmer"
>
> Well, he isn't a programmer, primarily. He
> knows orders of magnitude more than you do about
> being a programmer, all the same.
Yeah... bet on that..
Is it something to be proud of... Momma I woke up everyday morning thinkin I'd get outta this worthless job.. and today I'm retiring at 55
>Not bad eh
Wait till you are 55
> I'm not a programmer, either. It's just what I do for
> a living. We're not defined by our jobs, are we?
Aren't we? Doctors.. Engineers... presidents...
Ring ring.. yes that s the bell in your brain ringing.. Finally you got it right ;-)
> Both platforms have great tools to speed up the
> development. Also, both platforms provide a great way
> to write efficient and high-performance enterprise
> applications.
>
> Neither Java nor .NET are slow by themselves. It's
> the matter of developers experience. If the
> developers have more experience in Java than .NET,
> the Java-based applications certainly are much faster
> than .NET ones, and vice versa.
>
> By the way, IMHO, well written Java codes are more
> maintainable than well-written .NET codes. I think
> they're just wasting their time and money. If the
> application is not fast, the developers were unable
> to write a fast one. It's better to spend time and
> money to train them, rather than developing another
> slow application from the scratch.
They're wasing their time because they've already written these apps once!
> Nice work.
> Here's some of what I've done over the last few
> decades.
> http://www.usefilm.com/photographer/454.html
Nice, I liked synchronisity.
Btw. Do you own a Japanese spitz?
kajbja at 2007-7-29 16:51:41 >
It is my opinion that .NET applications can be developed somewhat faster, especially when building GUI's, however the drawback is a more limited, contained, and restricted path of developing software.
You can consider to use JDeveloper from Oracle, it offers simplicity to develop Swing application with its ADF Framework. Try it, and I believe you will revise your above statement. You may develop Swing application with or without ADF Framework, but using ADF Framework will help you much.
Indeed, developing web based application will much more easier using JHeadstart application with someway Visual Studio .NET doesn't offer. You can deliver a complex JSF based application without coding any java code using JHeadstart. This offer much more simplicity, even people doesn't know java can create JSF based application using JHeadstart.
In my opinion, JDeveloper (with ADF Framework) offer many benefits on GUI development compare to Netbeans with matisse.
rterya at 2007-7-29 16:51:41 >
Well apparently management doesn't believe it is a waste of time or we wouldn't be doing it. Such is the nature of the beast.
I know the company is PROFITABLE and they are rolling in the cash, and development takes too long right now.
Instead of using all that money to rearchitect everything with the HOPES that development time in between releases will decrease, they could actually offer...
dare I say...
Competitive wages?
GASP* I just said it!
To try and attract the most talented people.
This company operates with the attitude that they are doing YOU a favor by ALLOWING you to work for them for a small amount of money.
Jesus christ and they wonder why the average span of a developer in this company is a little over a year!
Well, they offer you a nice personal development opportunity.
Just take it! Sharpening you C sharp cannot be bad for the
next job. Oops, you did not mention C#, just .NET.
Do they want it in VB? Or J++?
There is a common perception in the business place that Java is horribly complicated and slow to build applications. This is both sadly and thankfully not the fault of the platform. I say sadly because of where the blame actually lies, and thankfully because if it was the platform then we'd all be really screwed. The real problem lies with the means with which individuals and teams build software. Methodology and understanding are the culprits here not the platform. The methodology fails because it fails to keep in mind the single fundamental goal of what we do as paraphrased from Kent Beck,
"If what you are about to do promotes the singular goal of putting USABLE software in front of your users, it is a good thing and should be retained in your process. If it does not promote that goal it should be excised from your process."
If the development effort does not deliver software in a timely fashion, it is NOT the fault of Java nor will it be corrected by changing to .Net. If anything such a change will actually worsen the problem because of the learning curve involved simply in changing gears to a .Net footing.
[Raving Linux and Java evangelist opinion statement]
.Net as a technology base has a number of things about it that I flatly do not like. I don't like the way it hides things like accessors and mutators. I do not like the way it binds everything to the form level. There are others but that's neither here nor there. I do think there are places where .Net is a good fit. (1) If the customer already has an investment in Microsoft technologies, databases, their developers know Microsoft technologies and such. (2) If the implementation is a relatively small (moderate user count) application with a relatively small amount of core processing.
[/Raving Linux and Java evangelist opinion statement]
If they really want a solution that will improve their development cycle and delivery I would suggest.
1) Change the WAY you build and deliver software (gasp He's talking about that crazy agile development thing). This requires that you change how you define software development efforts, how you identify needs and requirements, and it requires that the developers be up close and cuddly with the end users.
2) Care and feeding of the development community. It has to be worthwhile for the developers to engage. Working harder for longer hours is not the answer here. [In the agile development model, any team that routinely has overtime is dysfunctional and the effort in jeopardy]
Just my 2 krupplenicks worth, your milage may of course vary.
PS.
> Well, they offer you a nice personal development
> opportunity.
> Just take it! Sharpening you C sharp cannot be bad
> for the
> next job. Oops, you did not mention C#, just .NET.
> Do they want it in VB? Or J++?
They claim that the implementation is NOT important, however .NET technologies are what we WILL be limiting ourselves to.
So... essentially I feel they don't realize how hypocritical that sounds!
They are forming their business solution on an F'ING implementation!
But hey... as long as I keep getting my paycheck I will write the whole GD application in Flash if thats what they want.
I don't categorize myself by a technology, I just try to learn all that I can so I can be useful to many different types of implementations.
There are bad Java applications out there just as there are bad .NET applications, but what makes them bad is not the technologies, but poorly formulated business requirements based on incorrect and prejudiced information, as well as poor design from a lack of talented engineers in a particular technology.
> They claim that the implementation is NOT important,
> however .NET technologies are what we WILL be
> limiting ourselves to.
>
Without knowing why.
> I don't categorize myself by a technology, I just try
> to learn all that I can so I can be useful to many
> different types of implementations.
>
I think it's always a good idea to become a real expert in a few technologies rather than just learning all technologies without enough experience.
> There are bad Java applications out there just as
> there are bad .NET applications, but what makes them
> bad is not the technologies, but poorly formulated
> business requirements based on incorrect and
> prejudiced information, as well as poor design from a
> lack of talented engineers in a particular technology.
Exactly. Tell it to your idiot managers.
> Exactly. Tell it to your idiot managers.
And make sure you let your managers know they're idiots. That's very helpful.
~
> > Exactly. Tell it to your idiot managers.
>
> And make sure you let your managers know they're
> idiots. That's very helpful.
>
Good hint !
>> On behalf of "Management", thanks for your vote of confidence. ;op
Considering how much time you spend on these forums... what exactly are you managing?
Oh thats right, you're managing to kill time!: )
> Considering how much time you spend on these
> forums... what exactly are you managing?
> Oh thats right, you're managing to kill time!: )
Indeed! :o)
Actually, I'm managing to learn a few things. How about you?
~
> Well apparently management doesn't believe it is a
> waste of time or we wouldn't be doing it. Such is
> the nature of the beast.
>
> I know the company is PROFITABLE and they are rolling
> in the cash, and development takes too long right
> now.
>
> Instead of using all that money to rearchitect
> everything with the HOPES that development time in
> between releases will decrease, they could actually
> offer...
>
> dare I say...
>
> Competitive wages?
>
> GASP* I just said it!
>
> To try and attract the most talented people.
>
> This company operates with the attitude that they are
> doing YOU a favor by ALLOWING you to work for them
> for a small amount of money.
>
> Jesus christ and they wonder why the average span of
> a developer in this company is a little over a year!
You know... If I didn't know any better I'd suspect you are working in the same place I am,
not but a few cubicle spaces over from me.
But, if they don't offer competitive wages to attract the most talented and competent people,
what does that say about us who work for them already?
>> Actually, I'm managing to learn a few things. How about you?
Of all its many names, i like to call it "regrouping".
> rolling
> > in the cash, and development takes too long right
> > now.
> >
Development ALWAYS takes too long. If you came up with a process where you can go from initial customer request to a working program in 2 days they'll scream it's taking a day too long...
Such is the nature of managers, especially those from a non-technical background.
> > Competitive wages?
> >
> > GASP* I just said it!
> >
It is becoming clear to me that what we'd like to be competitive wages are in fact fiction.
The wages being offered are competitive in that they're similar to what other companies offer people with the same skillset and experience.
> > To try and attract the most talented people.
> >
Which won't do much. Those people aren't likely to stick around long enough to make a difference in an environment like the one you describe.
They also typically can't work very well in teams, are loners, and therefore not suitable for larger projects where people need to work together to get the job done.
They're excellent as the lone wolf research developer exploring and creating new technology, not as a worker in the trenches using that technology to create value added systems that provide benefit to customers.
> > This company operates with the attitude that they
> are
> > doing YOU a favor by ALLOWING you to work for them
> > for a small amount of money.
> >
Such is the nature of most companies, especially in the wake of an economic slump like we had between 2002 and about 2005 when people were happy just to have a job doing what they're trained to do at all (and in fact many talented people left IT for lack of work).
> > Jesus christ and they wonder why the average span
> of
> > a developer in this company is a little over a
> year!
>
Not so long ago that was considered to be a good thing in the industry. It was supposed that you were unable to grow as a professional, unwanted by other companies, if you stuck around much longer than that in any single job.
In fact many people changed jobs every few months.
> But, if they don't offer competitive wages to attract
> the most talented and competent people,
> what does that say about us who work for them already?
It means we're realists who understand that the situation in other companies is no better so we stick around in an environment that we understand rather than trashing around all the time, loosing what benefits longterm employment yields.
> > Well apparently management doesn't believe it is a
> > waste of time or we wouldn't be doing it. Such is
> > the nature of the beast.
> >
> > I know the company is PROFITABLE and they are
> rolling
> > in the cash, and development takes too long right
> > now.
> >
> > Instead of using all that money to rearchitect
> > everything with the HOPES that development time in
> > between releases will decrease, they could
> actually
> > offer...
> >
> > dare I say...
> >
> > Competitive wages?
> >
> > GASP* I just said it!
> >
> > To try and attract the most talented people.
> >
> > This company operates with the attitude that they
> are
> > doing YOU a favor by ALLOWING you to work for them
> > for a small amount of money.
> >
> > Jesus christ and they wonder why the average span
> of
> > a developer in this company is a little over a
> year!
>
> You know... If I didn't know any better I'd suspect
> you are working in the same place I am,
> not but a few cubicle spaces over from me.
>
> But, if they don't offer competitive wages to attract
> the most talented and competent people,
> what does that say about us who work for them already?
Maybe it is a little odd that we seem to be in a similar situation but if I do happen to work with you then I would rather not know who you are for both of our safety.
I think what that says about me is that I took this job because it was readily available to me when I was in a bad situation at a bad company. I stay here only because I don't want my resume to be littered with one and two year terms. I want future employers to see that if they take the chance on me then I will stick around for a while.
Well there is competitive wages yes... but there is also offering above and beyond that to attract the cream of the crop.
Google doesn't have some of the brightest in the industry because they offer mediocre salary and benefits.
Message was edited by:
maple_shaft
> It is becoming clear to me that what we'd like to be
> competitive wages are in fact fiction.
> The wages being offered are competitive in that
> they're similar to what other companies offer people
> with the same skillset and experience.
Seems likely... Many thanks to Adam Smith.
> They're excellent as the lone wolf research developer
> exploring and creating new technology, not as a
> worker in the trenches using that technology to
> create value added systems that provide benefit to
> customers.
The "Mad Genius" syndrome?
> > But, if they don't offer competitive wages to
> attract
> > the most talented and competent people,
> > what does that say about us who work for them
> already?
> It means we're realists who understand that the
> situation in other companies is no better so we stick
> around in an environment that we understand rather
> than trashing around all the time, loosing what
> benefits longterm employment yields.
Who says you can only get good answers to purely Java questions around here?
I knew there was a reason I was staying in this job... besides essentially being paid to learn new skills (from time to time).
> Maybe it is a little odd that we seem to be in a
> similar situation but if I do happen to work with you
> then I would rather not know who you are for both of
> our safety.
I just found it interesting that your original work environment statements echoed all
the ones I have heard around here.
But, I think jwenting is correct in that you will hear such statements about an
employer almost anywhere.
Except for, perhaps, Google maybe...
> Google doesn't have some of the brightest in the
> industry because they offer mediocre salary and
> benefits.
You'll hear the same sorts of things no matter where you are. It is human nature for the grass to look greener and for it to appear that there is less poo on the other side of the fence. The fact that it is usually not any better over there doesn't keep us from doing it.
All projects and all customers and all development groups are dysfunctional to some degree. The nature of the dysfunction changes, but it's always present.
PS.
> You'll hear the same sorts of things no matter where
> you are. It is human nature for the grass to look
> greener and for it to appear that there is less poo
> on the other side of the fence. The fact that it is
> usually not any better over there doesn't keep us
> from doing it.
Once in awhile the grass is greener though... My last job in the exhibition services industry (3 yrs ago now) was pure agony.
This gig is pure cake. An 8 hour day? More than twice the money? Learn something new now and again?
<sarcasm level="extreme">
Can't imagine why I left the previous job.
</sarcasm>
> Except for, perhaps, Google maybe...
>
> > Google doesn't have some of the brightest in the
> > industry because they offer mediocre salary and
> > benefits.
apparently especially at Google, as that statement clearly says they don't have the brightest in the industry and that that is because they offer mediocre salary and benefits :)
