Linux for Java Development
I will be installing linux on my new laptop(yet to get it). I was using slackware 11 till date. Slack 11 was powerful and I liked it, except for a few things in it. I was thinking of shifting to ubuntu 7.04 as it had a better interface albeit the work always comes down to the console. I would like to know which version of linux would you suggest, keeping in mind Java and other development work. As in, it should be flexible and powerful, keeping in mind the kind of work developers are involved in(Work on Java and C++ development).
My work has nothing to do with Linux, and I rather write and test my programs on the intended target platform (which is XP).
Otherwise, don't all those distributions have the same kernels? What do you mean with "powerful"?
> My work has nothing to do with Linux, and I rather
> write and test my programs on the intended target
> platform (which is XP).
>
> Otherwise, don't all those distributions have the
> same kernels? What do you mean with "powerful"?
The thing is I am also into Mozilla development for which I devote majority of my time and I do my mozilla work on linux. So it doesn't make sense for me to use windows and linux and I wouldn't want to use parallels.
I will start using the Mac OS Tiger in sometime. But I am not sure about the features it would provide. Tiger is on the UNIX platform. So I am expecting it offer the same flexibility as linux. Flexibility as in the power to change and customize the OS at the core level. Even for development work that involves c++, linux is good. Inspite of Tiger being present on my laptop, I would still want to have linux on it.
> Otherwise, don't all those distributions have the
> same kernels?
Do but I am also looking at a version that has a better interface and ubuntu scores here over slack. And moreover, the ease with which we can download and install additional packages also counts.
And yes. Last time I had asked all you poster's advice as to which laptop I should buy. I am buying a MacBook. Thanks for all the suggestions that were given to me.
It's not like there's a linux distribution designed especially for Java development. Use whatever you feel most familiar with.
> > Otherwise, don't all those distributions have the
> > same kernels?
>
> Do but I am also looking at a version that has a
> better interface and ubuntu scores here over slack.
> And moreover, the ease with which we can download and
> install additional packages also counts.
Hogwash. You said you were looking for a good linux version to develop on, then you bring up all these eye-candy issues.
Linux is Linux, when it comes to development (unless you are currently developing for a specific versions eye-candy desktop, inwhich case the question is moot).
I don't mean to be derogatory, but hey.
Since it is the eye-candy you're worried ybout, try out a few of them and use the one you like.
The thing is I do have a concern for interface too. But the second point. The issue on packages. That's a concern for me. I had really no trouble for slack as all the package were present by default and I selected a few when I customized it. But if the flavour doesn't offer good support for the installation of packages then I wouldn't want to go in for that flavour.
So pick whatever you like then.
I currently run FC7 as my main Linux but have VMware installed and use it so I can now run Ubuntu, Windows XP and Windows 2000 all at the same time! I ran out of disk space so I had to get rid of my Windows 98 and I have no requirement yet for this new fangled Windows.
I develop on FC7 and then test on XP and 2000.
> I currently run FC7 as my main Linux but have VMware
> installed and use it so I can now run Ubuntu, Windows
> XP and Windows 2000 all at the same time! I ran out
> of disk space so I had to get rid of my Windows 98
> and I have no requirement yet for this new fangled
> Windows.
>
> I develop on FC7 and then test on XP and 2000.
Nice. And which would you suggest between FC7 and ubuntu 7.04.
Just use whatever you feel like. Much like when you were buying your laptop, I reckon you're worrying too much about getting something that's absolutely perfect. Nothing ever is, you can't tell how suitable it is for you up-front and you certainly can't find that out by asking other people. You can only truly know what's best for you by finding out for yourself what isn't best for you, the hard way
For the record, I use Red Hat Enterprise at work, and XP, Vista or Ubuntu at home, depending on how I feel, except for Vista which is installed on my laptop, but is going as soon as I get round to it. The bag of shyte. Ubuntu is extremely well-supported, I got SVN, Apache, Tomcat, CruiseControl, Maven, Ant and god knows what else up and running on it in next to no time, with the minimum of effort and hunting around. Far quicker than doing the same on, say, an XP box. That's worth bearing in mind
Worrying about versions of an OS is a red herring, too. Just choose something and install it, you're a developer, get on and develop!
> > I currently run FC7 as my main Linux but have
> VMware
> > installed and use it so I can now run Ubuntu,
> Windows
> > XP and Windows 2000 all at the same time! I ran
> out
> > of disk space so I had to get rid of my Windows 98
> > and I have no requirement yet for this new fangled
> > Windows.
> >
> > I develop on FC7 and then test on XP and 2000.
>
> Nice. And which would you suggest between FC7 and
> ubuntu 7.04.
The Jury is still out; they look very much the same and both use the 2.6 kernel.
Ubuntu is very easy to install but at this time I think I go for FC7 because I am having trouble using Ubuntu 7.04 on my server. I never had any problems when I used FC5 on my server and since I have time I will probably change it to try FC7.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions
Ubuntu and Fedora are pretty popular. Fedora is based off of Red Hat, and Ubuntu is based off of Debian.
I suggest trying out some of the LiveCDs that are out there:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_LiveCDs
You should be able to run the OS right off of the CD. I have used Slackware 10, and I always felt it was lacking.
I use Fedora 7, I like having the yum updater to update the software and kernel. I have never tried Ubuntu. I have used Mandrake/Mandriva in the past, but I think that is more geared towards users and less for developers.
In reality, most of the flavors that are constantly updating their OS should be good, you don't want something that takes months for a bug to get fixed (or years like Windows).
Ubuntu indeed has (IMHO) the best package system because any .deb works with it (unlike the rpm distros where there are so many different flavors that no rpm will work with all of them that you might as well just use source rpms)... the problem I think you will run in to sometimes (at least I have with Ubuntu) I will find a package that apt-get won't give me an up-to-date version for.
Also, saying that distro __ has a better "interface" than distro is pointless; the flavor has absolutely nothing to do with the interface; that is the desktop manager (KDE, Gnome, etc) which is configurable. Maybe what you meant is that "The default settings for KDE are more aesthetically pleasing on Ubuntu than on _"
> Also, saying that distro __ has a better
> "interface" than distro is pointless; the
> flavor has absolutely nothing to do with the
> interface; that is the desktop manager (KDE, Gnome,
> etc) which is configurable. Maybe what you meant is
> that "The default settings for KDE are more
> aesthetically pleasing on Ubuntu than on _"
A very valid point Jake. Linux doesn't have a user interface, as such
> A very valid point Jake. Linux doesn't have a user
> interface, as such
White on black is wrong. White background and black text FTW!
Err, yeah. Live CDs are the way to go. Give each a quick go.
mlka at 2007-7-29 11:47:54 >
> Just use whatever you feel like. Much like when you
> were buying your laptop, I reckon you're worrying too
> much about getting something that's absolutely
> perfect. Nothing ever is, you can't tell how
> suitable it is for you up-front and you certainly
> can't find that out by asking other people. You can
> only truly know what's best for you by finding out
> for yourself what isn't best for you, the hard way
That's right George. Infact, I decided to buy the MacBook after receiving a demo at the showroom.
> For the record, I use Red Hat Enterprise at work, and
> XP, Vista or Ubuntu at home, depending on how I feel,
> except for Vista which is installed on my laptop, but
> is going as soon as I get round to it. The bag of
> shyte.
:D
>Ubuntu is extremely well-supported,
I did see that.
>I got SVN,
> Apache, Tomcat, CruiseControl, Maven, Ant and god
> knows what else up and running on it in next to no
> time, with the minimum of effort and hunting around.
> Far quicker than doing the same on, say, an XP box.
> That's worth bearing in mind
Yes. I did feel the speed. Not that I haven't felt it in slack. But for sometime I had been using xp and when I switched to Ubuntu on my disk, it was like jumping into a ferrari from a spyker.
> Worrying about versions of an OS is a red herring,
> too. Just choose something and install it, you're a
> developer, get on and develop!
;). Thanks a lot george.
> The Jury is still out; they look very much the same
> and both use the 2.6 kernel.
>
> Ubuntu is very easy to install but at this time I
> think I go for FC7 because I am having trouble using
> Ubuntu 7.04 on my server. I never had any problems
> when I used FC5 on my server and since I have time I
> will probably change it to try FC7.
Okay. Thanks sabre
> In reality, most of the flavors that are constantly
> updating their OS should be good, you don't want
> something that takes months for a bug to get fixed
> (or years like Windows).
:D. Thanks a lot
> Ubuntu indeed has (IMHO) the best package system
> because any .deb works with it (unlike the rpm
> distros where there are so many different flavors
> that no rpm will work with all of them that you might
> as well just use source rpms)... the problem I think
> you will run in to sometimes (at least I have with
> Ubuntu) I will find a package that apt-get won't give
> me an up-to-date version for.
Not to mention, that the package manager doesn't work for me in Ubuntu. I had to use the console. It isn't really a concern, but still!
> > A very valid point Jake. Linux doesn't have a user
> > interface, as such
>
> White on black is wrong. White background and black
> text FTW!
>
> Err, yeah. Live CDs are the way to go. Give each a
> quick go.
Yeah. I run Ubuntu and slack. I just need to see FC7. I will do that. Thanks.
> That's right George. Infact, I decided to buy the
> MacBook after receiving a demo at the showroom.
>
I decided not to buy one after looking at several closely and noticing the shoddy quality of the mechanical parts.
They just looked ready to fall apart even in the store.
Getting disturbing reports about all kinds of hardware and software problems from colleagues who did buy them reinforced that decision.
> >Ubuntu is extremely well-supported,
>
> I did see that.
>
It is, compared to many other Linux distributions which aren't supported at all.
> I decided not to buy one after looking at several
> closely and noticing the shoddy quality of the
> mechanical parts.
> They just looked ready to fall apart even in the
> store.
They do look kind of delicate. If one's living the life of a soldier, then he should go for a thinkpad, with it's metal hinges to protect it's edges and it's sturdy design. And which were the mechanical parts you found low on quality. I think it must be the keyboard. MacBook keyboard is amongst the worst in laptops. Apart from that everything else is very good. The screen is really good. And another reason why it looks the way you have described is because it has that sleek and delicate look, albeit it may not actually be delicate.
> Getting disturbing reports about all kinds of
> hardware and software problems from colleagues who
> did buy them reinforced that decision.
Well, this really is making me think twice about my decision. I was supposed to buy my MacBook this Saturday. Infact, I have already reserved one.
> sturdy design. And which were the mechanical parts
> you found low on quality. I think it must be the
> keyboard. MacBook keyboard is amongst the worst in
> laptops. Apart from that everything else is very
yes, mostly the keyboard. Which of course is the single component that needs to be sturdy as it's the component that's most subjected to stress next to the hinges of the screen.
> good. The screen is really good. And another reason
> why it looks the way you have described is because it
> has that sleek and delicate look, albeit it may not
> actually be delicate.
>
Indeed it did look kinda flimsy overall. Didn't make me feel confident about its longevity (mind the new laptop replaced another one that had been in use nearly constantly for over 5 years, I'm not into the "replace when there's something new that looks cool" group of customers).
> > Getting disturbing reports about all kinds of
> > hardware and software problems from colleagues who
> > did buy them reinforced that decision.
>
> Well, this really is making me think twice about my
> decision. I was supposed to buy my MacBook this
> Saturday. Infact, I have already reserved one.
I believe most of those have been solved, like the battery problems that plagued Apple laptops last year and early this year which were quite independent of the bad batteries Sony supplied to many companies and made their way into a variety of products last year (though battery problems do seem to be a recurring issue with Apple products overall).
Steve Job's assertion that noone uses Java these days and the glacial pace with which Apple stays in line with Sun releases makes Apples less than ideal too for Java development (at least if you're looking to use recent versions of the language).
Personally I am a Gentoo user. It may be a little harder to install and it takes a long time (everything is downloaded and compiled), but what you end up with is a highly optimized system and it has a wonderful package manager called "portage" that makes installing, updating and uninstalling applications very easy. And the online documentation is truly brilliant.
> yes, mostly the keyboard. Which of course is the
> single component that needs to be sturdy as it's the
> component that's most subjected to stress next to the
> hinges of the screen.
Did see that and even I wasn't really happy.
> Indeed it did look kinda flimsy overall. Didn't make
> me feel confident about its longevity (mind the new
> laptop replaced another one that had been in use
> nearly constantly for over 5 years, I'm not into the
> "replace when there's something new that looks cool"
> group of customers).
With apple's APP, you get a good three years warranty(including the default one year)
>
> > > Getting disturbing reports about all kinds of
> > > hardware and software problems from colleagues
> who
> > > did buy them reinforced that decision.
> >
> > Well, this really is making me think twice about
> my
> > decision. I was supposed to buy my MacBook this
> > Saturday. Infact, I have already reserved one.
>
> I believe most of those have been solved, like the
> battery problems that plagued Apple laptops last year
> and early this year which were quite independent of
> the bad batteries Sony supplied to many companies and
> made their way into a variety of products last year
> (though battery problems do seem to be a recurring
> issue with Apple products overall).
Yes. Last year it was because of Sony's batteries. However they have replaced their battery now. Apart from that, I don't think there is any real concern with it's hardware, albeit the battery trouble is still prevalent in the ipod.
> Steve Job's assertion that noone uses Java these days
> and the glacial pace with which Apple stays in line
> with Sun releases makes Apples less than ideal too
> for Java development (at least if you're looking to
> use recent versions of the language).
For this one check my post below.
> Steve Job's assertion that noone uses Java these days
> and the glacial pace with which Apple stays in line
> with Sun releases makes Apples less than ideal too
> for Java development (at least if you're looking to
> use recent versions of the language).
This explains Apple's monumentally stupid decision to exclude Java from the iPhone :-)
(can open, worms everywhere....)
Well, my talk with you made me change my decision. I ordered a Toshiba A200-E560D. I paid $1450 including tax.
This is a configuration
Satellite A200-E560D
Intel Centrino Duo Processor Technology including Intel Core2 Duo Processor T7100 (1.8GHz, 2MB L2 Cache, 800MHz FSB) Intel 965GM Express Chipset
1.8 Ghz
512MB RAM II 667 Mhz. FSB
80GB
DVD SuperMulti Double Layer Drive
15.4" WXGA Clear Super View Display, resolution 1280 x 800
Intel Graphics Media Accelerator X3100, up to 358MB of shared video memory
Onyx Blue Metallic non-gloss
Intel 802.11abg WLAN, Bluetooth V2.0 w/ Enhanced Data Rate
4x USB 2.0, RGB, S-video , Headphone (stereo), RJ-11, RJ-45, DC-in, IEEE, Express Card slot, 5-in-1 Card Reader (supports SD Card, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, MultiMedia Card, xD-Picture Card), GigaBit LAN, FingerPrint Reader
9 Cell
2.7 Kgs
Genuine Windows Vista Business
3 Yrs ILW , 1-year battery warranty
What made me happy was the 800Mhz FSB. The ram is 667Mhz, but I will upgrade it to 2 GB once the 887 Mhz RAM comes into the market.
Apart from that it has a card reader which the macbook doesn't have, not to mention the 9 cell battery which will last almost 7-8 hours. The vista that comes with it is the headache. I will have to spend my precious time deleting it from my disk :D . The DVD burner, and the 3 year warranty comes for free too(compared to the MacBook where we will have to shell out almost $200 for the burner and $373 for the APP).
Thanks jwenting ;)
> > Steve Job's assertion that noone uses Java these
> days
> > and the glacial pace with which Apple stays in
> line
> > with Sun releases makes Apples less than ideal too
> > for Java development (at least if you're looking
> to
> > use recent versions of the language).
>
> This explains Apple's monumentally stupid decision to
> exclude Java from the iPhone :-)
>
> (can open, worms everywhere....)
I am sure they will include it in the next generation iPhone. Java is used everywhere in cellphones. I have bagged an internship in a telecommunication company and I have been told that I will work in the Java division. With high end cellphones offering better resources, I can see Java leading the way everywhere.
> Well, my talk with you made me change my decision. I
> ordered a Toshiba A200-E560D. I paid $1450 including
> tax.
I bought an A200 as well. Bit higher-spec than yours but then, I'm not a poor student :p
So far, only problem I've had with it is bl00dy Vista - it's going soon. Eclipse dies at least 5 times an hour on it, for one thing
> I bought an A200 as well. Bit higher-spec than yours
> but then, I'm not a poor student :p
No problem. I will be rich by this time next year :D. Which model did you buy? I will have to wait for a week for mine to arrive(****!).
> So far, only problem I've had with it is bl00dy Vista
> - it's going soon. Eclipse dies at least 5 times an
> hour on it, for one thing
Getting vista off my disk is the first thing I will be doing when I get it.. The ram's a concern. I am not sure when the 887Mhz (I am not very sure about the speed, but it's somewhere around 800Mhz) RAM would land in the market. As soon as that comes, I will upgrade it to 2 GB ram.
> > I bought an A200 as well. Bit higher-spec than
> yours
> > but then, I'm not a poor student :p
>
> No problem. I will be rich by this time next year :D.
> Which model did you buy? I will have to wait for a
> week for mine to arrive(****!).
No idea what model it was, I just got one with the spec. I wanted. 2GB Ram, 200GB HDD, all the usual drives and what-not
> > So far, only problem I've had with it is bl00dy
> Vista
> > - it's going soon. Eclipse dies at least 5 times
> an
> > hour on it, for one thing
>
> Getting vista off my disk is the first thing I will
> be doing when I get it.. The ram's a concern. I am
> not sure when the 887Mhz (I am not very sure about
> the speed, but it's somewhere around 800Mhz) RAM
> would land in the market. As soon as that comes, I
> will upgrade it to 2 GB ram.
2GB ram is essential these days I reckon
> > > I bought an A200 as well. Bit higher-spec than
> > yours
> > > but then, I'm not a poor student :p
> >
> > No problem. I will be rich by this time next year
> :D.
> > Which model did you buy? I will have to wait for a
> > week for mine to arrive(****!).
>
> No idea what model it was, I just got one with the
> spec. I wanted. 2GB Ram, 200GB HDD, all the usual
> drives and what-not
>200GB
Jesus! I can sleep with that much :P
> > > So far, only problem I've had with it is bl00dy
> > Vista
> > > - it's going soon. Eclipse dies at least 5 times
> > an
> > > hour on it, for one thing
> >
> > Getting vista off my disk is the first thing I
> will
> > be doing when I get it.. The ram's a concern. I am
> > not sure when the 887Mhz (I am not very sure about
> > the speed, but it's somewhere around 800Mhz) RAM
> > would land in the market. As soon as that comes, I
> > will upgrade it to 2 GB ram.
>
> 2GB ram is essential these days I reckon
Yes.
> > > > I bought an A200 as well. Bit higher-spec than
> > > yours
> > > > but then, I'm not a poor student :p
> > >
> > > No problem. I will be rich by this time next
> year
> > :D.
> > > Which model did you buy? I will have to wait for
> a
> > > week for mine to arrive(****!).
> >
> > No idea what model it was, I just got one with the
> > spec. I wanted. 2GB Ram, 200GB HDD, all the usual
> > drives and what-not
>
> >200GB
>
> Jesus! I can sleep with that much :P
Mneh. Not including that laptop, there's about 2 TB of space floating around between 3 machines in my house. Bl00dy bittorrent
> > I bought an A200 as well. Bit higher-spec than
> yours
> > but then, I'm not a poor student :p
>
> No problem. I will be rich by this time next year :D.
> Which model did you buy? I will have to wait for a
> week for mine to arrive(****!).
>
Got me an A100 something. Good enough as a walkaround machine when I'm not near one of my desktops (like as an ebook reader in the train) and a backup/3rd screen to display documentation.
> > So far, only problem I've had with it is bl00dy
> Vista
> > - it's going soon. Eclipse dies at least 5 times
> an
> > hour on it, for one thing
>
> Getting vista off my disk is the first thing I will
> be doing when I get it.. The ram's a concern. I am
> not sure when the 887Mhz (I am not very sure about
> the speed, but it's somewhere around 800Mhz) RAM
> would land in the market. As soon as that comes, I
> will upgrade it to 2 GB ram.
2GB is nice, but it all depends on what you want to do with it.
If you're going to be running application servers or large projects in your IDE (hundreds or thousands of classes), you need it.
If your requirements are more modest you can survive with 1-1.5GB easily (though Vista may need more RAM than does XP).
If I were you I'd wait until the RAM gets cheaper before you buy it, rather than pay premium to get something that's brand new on the market.
The money saved can go into an external harddisk (for example) or IntelliJ.
> Got me an A100 something. Good enough as a walkaround
> machine when I'm not near one of my desktops (like as
> an ebook reader in the train) and a backup/3rd screen
> to display documentation.
But I will be using it for core development work. I can't think of using my desktop now. It's 8 years old. A 1 GHz machine with 512 MB Ram(It was just 128MB a few months back), has absolutely no graphics memory(I have to share it), and an ASUS CUSI-FX motherboard. It was high time I got myself a good machine, moreover being involved in some serious development work. And here is the laptop that I ordered.
> 2GB is nice, but it all depends on what you want to
> do with it.
> If you're going to be running application servers or
> large projects in your IDE (hundreds or thousands of
> classes), you need it.
> If your requirements are more modest you can survive
> with 1-1.5GB easily (though Vista may need more RAM
> than does XP).
I won't be needing an Application server for sometime. Maybe for my University project next year I will need it on my machine. And moreover my java development requires it too. Apart from that my other development work isn't really *memory hungry*.
> If I were you I'd wait until the RAM gets cheaper
> before you buy it, rather than pay premium to get
> something that's brand new on the market.
> The money saved can go into an external harddisk (for
> example) or IntelliJ.
That's what I intend to do. I will wait for sometime and then buy the 2 GB ram. I think 887 MHz has just entered the market. As for hard disk, I won't be needing it. I have 80 GB in my desktop. That will suffice. And I intend to keep my laptop hard disk clean. I don't want to clutter it with data.
My desktop platform of choice is Ubuntu 7.04 (Feisty Fawn) in large part because of Synaptec Package Manager which while it lives on top of the actual package management system provides a VERY tidy and workable interface for installing most anything you might want, and by installing with Synaptec, the system knows to keep an eye on it and automatically updates it when updates become available.
Very graceful installation and the only place it misbehaves is in the destop effects and they tell you on the dialog that it's prototypal and may or may not behave well.
In all good conscience I could not recommend OSX as an OS for doing Java development because as others have said how grotuesqly Apple lags behind in their acceptance of Java. Don't know what Job's malfunction with Java is nor do I really care. That said two of my co-workers do Java development on OSX and it works very well for them.
For my money though (all of $12 US invested in software) Ubuntu and eclipse get it done for me for Java and C++ development about 95% of the time and for the rest NetBeans has that covered.
PS.
> Getting vista off my disk is the first thing I will
> be doing when I get it.. The ram's a concern. I am
> not sure when the 887Mhz (I am not very sure about
> the speed, but it's somewhere around 800Mhz) RAM
> would land in the market. As soon as that comes, I
> will upgrade it to 2 GB ram.
I absolutely applaud your decision to eradicate Vista (Getting rid of anything involving the word Microsoft is one of my missions in life). I would however suggest a bit of caution. In my experience with several Linux distros the more current your hardware, the more likely you are to have problems because drivers tend to lag a bit behind the development of drivers for Winblows (For very understanable reasons I might add). Also, I wold suggest documenting your adventure of putting Linux on your new box. That information might be valuable to someone else at some point.
PS.
> Getting vista off my disk is the first thing I will
> be doing when I get it.. The ram's a concern. I am
If you already have it anyway (because it got shoved down your throat and you already paid for it), why not keep it around by dual booting for testing purposes? I dual boot Feisty with XP and its been a comfortable arrangement though I do not do any serious developing on by desktop. I haven't messed around with mounting the NTFS partition yet but from what I read it works fine.
> If you already have it anyway (because it got shoved
> down your throat and you already paid for it), why
> not keep it around by dual booting for testing
> purposes? I dual boot Feisty with XP and its been a
> comfortable arrangement though I do not do any
> serious developing on by desktop. I haven't messed
> around with mounting the NTFS partition yet but from
> what I read it works fine.
The Vista boot loader takes command of the system and Vista won't boot without it (According to the accounts of people who've tried what you're proposing that I've read). Before I eradicated Winblows from my machine entire I dual booted XP as well and it worked well for me but I was using the GRUB boot loader. Vista as I understand it is not as well mannered.
PS.
> I absolutely applaud your decision to eradicate Vista
> (Getting rid of anything involving the word Microsoft
> is one of my missions in life).
To be frank the two hours I am concerned about the two minutes I would have to spend erasing vista from my disk. Can't think of wasting even a second on windows. But the benefits are worth it ;)
>I would however
> suggest a bit of caution. In my experience with
> several Linux distros the more current your hardware,
> the more likely you are to have problems because
> drivers tend to lag a bit behind the development of
> drivers for Winblows (For very understanable reasons
> I might add). Also, I wold suggest documenting your
> adventure of putting Linux on your new box. That
> information might be valuable to someone else at some
> point.
A good suggestion. I will document it in my website. I will install both slack and Ubuntu just incase I have trouble with Ubuntu( have been a slack user for a long time ). I must say that I had trouble with the package manager in Ubuntu. I however installed the packages using the console.
> > If you already have it anyway (because it got
> shoved
> > down your throat and you already paid for it), why
> > not keep it around by dual booting for testing
> > purposes? I dual boot Feisty with XP and its been
> a
> > comfortable arrangement though I do not do any
> > serious developing on by desktop. I haven't
> messed
> > around with mounting the NTFS partition yet but
> from
> > what I read it works fine.
>
> The Vista boot loader takes command of the system and
> Vista won't boot without it (According to the
> accounts of people who've tried what you're proposing
> that I've read). Before I eradicated Winblows from my
> machine entire I dual booted XP as well and it worked
> well for me but I was using the GRUB boot loader.
> Vista as I understand it is not as well mannered.
>
> PS.
that does blow</shaking fist in air>
> > If you already have it anyway (because it got
> shoved
> > down your throat and you already paid for it), why
> > not keep it around by dual booting for testing
> > purposes? I dual boot Feisty with XP and its been
> a
> > comfortable arrangement though I do not do any
> > serious developing on by desktop. I haven't
> messed
> > around with mounting the NTFS partition yet but
> from
> > what I read it works fine.
>
> The Vista boot loader takes command of the system and
> Vista won't boot without it (According to the
> accounts of people who've tried what you're proposing
> that I've read). Before I eradicated Winblows from my
> machine entire I dual booted XP as well and it worked
> well for me but I was using the GRUB boot loader.
> Vista as I understand it is not as well mannered.
>
> PS.
I dual boot Vista and Ubuntu with no problems. Just be sure to install Unbuntu after installing Vista. GRUB will handle everything.
> > > If you already have it anyway (because it got
> > shoved
> > > down your throat and you already paid for it),
> why
> > > not keep it around by dual booting for testing
> > > purposes? I dual boot Feisty with XP and its
> been
> > a
> > > comfortable arrangement though I do not do any
> > > serious developing on by desktop. I haven't
> > messed
> > > around with mounting the NTFS partition yet but
> > from
> > > what I read it works fine.
> >
> > The Vista boot loader takes command of the system
> and
> > Vista won't boot without it (According to the
> > accounts of people who've tried what you're
> proposing
> > that I've read). Before I eradicated Winblows from
> my
> > machine entire I dual booted XP as well and it
> worked
> > well for me but I was using the GRUB boot loader.
> > Vista as I understand it is not as well mannered.
> >
> > PS.
>
> I dual boot Vista and Ubuntu with no problems. Just
> be sure to install Unbuntu after installing Vista.
> GRUB will handle everything.
Indeed. It's always been like that. M$ bootloaders arrogantly assume you don't want any nasty other OS on your drive, and takes over. Silly boys, M$
