Java Certification and Mgmt
Hi everyone. I have a career question. In my current job I look around and I notice that the people taking home the big bucks and bonuses are the ones that know little about technology. They are the managers that handle budgets, resources (which programmers are working on which projects), project time lines, go to meetings, etc... I'm a programmer and if I run into any technical problems or I need a workaround, I can't go to my manager for help. I pretty much rely on other project leads or coworkers (which are becomming more rare since most of those jobs are going oversees).
So my question is this, why should I bother sticking with technology? In the places you work, are your managers technical? Can you go to them for guidance?
I have the opportunity to become a project lead here and move towards the management route or leaving here and pursuing a career in technology (but to do that I need to take some formal courses on Java to really get my hands around the language). But again, I look around here and I feel like, "Why bother studying and learning this stuff. It's not appreciated and it does not get you the big bucks." Is this just the working environment I'm in now or is it like this everywhere else? Any thoughts?
[1259 byte] By [
MCJaspera] at [2007-11-27 1:01:01]
> the people taking home the big bucks and bonuses are the ones that know little about technologyThis implies that such a career change for you would require a lobotomy!But I agree that the further away you get from the code, the more money you make.
First of all Money is not everything.
For me I like having control of my existance my review and my bonus.
I don't like having my review and bonus dependant on the work of others. I especially dislike all the backstabing, CYA , and kingdom building that goes along with being a manager in in a big corporation.
Ok it means less money, but if my manager becomes unreasonably demanding of my time. He will always be stuck picking up any hot potatoe that I jump ship from. Ok he will then start playing the blame game. But poor quality managers can only get away with that for so long.
> picking up any hot potato that I jump ship from.Nice mixed metaphor.
> > picking up any hot potato that I jump ship from.> > Nice mixed metaphor.I prefer my metaphors shaken, not stirred.
tsitha at 2007-7-11 23:35:48 >
For me money is one thing, interest is another thing. If you like the job, you would always be happy and satisfied with what you are getting for the job. If you are not happy with your current job, even though you are paid quite well, you won't stay. But I know some people would stay for the sake of money.
For me, yes I want to get paid well, but at the same time I also want to enjoy my work and get satisfactions from my job. If you want to continue programming while being a team leader, I think there is still a higher chances out there, but I don't think most MNC would practice that, maybe smaller size company or corporation.
But I don't think Project Manager would do programming much, maybe not a single bit of it? So you have to ask yourself what you want in your career? Is it better pay or enjoyment with justifiable pay? Or something else?
Just my two cents worth
Jensen - I am in a similar situation where I work, but on the flip side. I am a Project Manager with a large financial institution. I come from a development background, and through many iterations in Dev, QA, and Systems Analysis, I ended up in Project Management. I have been in Project Management for about 5 years, and I am actually thinking about moving back into a more "technical" role.
Your assumptions are generally correct on salary differences. I make a very fair wage in my current position. That being said, I feel like nothing more than a glorified Admin. I maintain schedules, budgets, facilitate meeting and do meeting minutes, and handle personnel issues. They pay me very well for this, and I am pretty good at it, but overall, I am dissatisified with the work.
Fortunately the company I work for has a position which is a Technical Management position. It requires a development background, and a variety of technical knowledge. However, it is NOT a developer position. Essentially you are the "Technical SME" for projects related to your area (I work in Client Server Applicaion Development). This position seems to have a good mix of management and technical skills. It requires that you get PMP certified (Project Management) due to the management responsibilities. Here's the kicker...there are only 3 of these positions in my group, so it is a highly competetive market. I plan to try and make a lateral (notice I said lateral) move into one of these positions as soon as one opens up. In the meantime, I am trying to sharpen my devlopment skills, design and archtiecture skills, etc., so that I am prepared given I haven't been in a development role for several years. The best part is that this position pays the same (if not more) than what I am making now and reports to Senior-level Management.
The moral of the story is, you have to make the decision on where you want to go with your career. I tried the PM thing, but even with the glory and the money, it still isn't worth it to me.
Hope this helps...
Thanks for all your replies and advice guys. Keep them comming. All these life experiences are food for thought.
> Hi everyone. I have a career question. In my
> current job I look around and I notice that the
> people taking home the big bucks and bonuses are the
> ones that know little about technology.
It's called irony and that's the rule of life. The jerks get all the girls. The guy running my country has the brain of a foosball, etc.
> They are the
> managers that handle budgets, resources (which
> programmers are working on which projects), project
> time lines, go to meetings, etc... I'm a programmer
> and if I run into any technical problems or I need a
> workaround, I can't go to my manager for help.
You're not supposed to. You go to your Technical Lead.
> I pretty much rely on other project leads or coworkers
> (which are becomming more rare since most of those
> jobs are going oversees).
>
> So my question is this, why should I bother sticking
> with technology?
Because the paycheck is huge. Otherwise, it's a HORRIBLE field (overall) and I'd suggest staying away from it.
> In the places you work, are your
> managers technical? Can you go to them for
> guidance?
No, and no. Almost never at least.
> I have the opportunity to become a project lead here
> and move towards the management route or leaving here
> and pursuing a career in technology (but to do that I
> need to take some formal courses on Java to really
> get my hands around the language). But again, I look
> around here and I feel like, "Why bother studying and
> learning this stuff. It's not appreciated and it
> does not get you the big bucks."
Sure it does! EVERYONE I know makes between 75k-150k programming code.
> Is this just the
> working environment I'm in now or is it like this
> everywhere else? Any thoughts?
The work environment is almost always horrible. But it helps to get a job with a company that's built around software (i.e. google, amazon, eBay, or some company that NEEDS its software people) and avoid companies famous for clothing or cofee and simply need someone to build them a website.
I'm approximating here, but I read something like 90% of people don't like their jobs, they got stuck in them over the years somehow and they work to draw a paycheck.
I was in management and went into programming because I enjoy it. The rule of thumb is this, the top 20% of the people in any field are making the money and they always have work. I'm going to spend a lot of time at work, so I should pick something I enjoy, otherwise the daily ups and downs (and every field has them) will make the money not seem so great. On top of that everything cycles in business, some fields more than others and we could be heading towards a glut of IT managers that will correct itself in the future like middle managers in the 90's. I don't know.
The side of the equation is that like it or not, most of the decision making in IT is run by non-IT people and a "good" manager of a team of devs can produce a product that is of multiplied greater value than individual devs working without one, so they get paid more. I'm not saying I like that or agree with it, but in business it's the value you bring to the table that determines salaries and a manager can potentially bring more value than the sum of the individual devs or at least upper management thinks so.
Lets face it, does a football player deserve millions for playing a season of football? The fans seem to think so because they are ultimately paying for it.
It's called the Peter Principal.
Each of us will rise to our own level of incompetence.
Since someone else brought up Bush. With the Peter Prinicple in effect.if Bush is as incompetent as you say, and he topped out at the Presidency.I gotta wonder how competent Pelosi, Hilary, Congress, and the rest of the citizens of the USA.
So this is a Java forum. Please keep your political views to yourself.
In my job, if your technic is good, you will be exclude by others. because here is china!
If i can meet the manager like you, i am so lucky.
