Putting Java on my CV
[295 byte] By [tommyjka] at [2007-11-26 21:33:57] 
What's the correct way? I put Java 2 on my CV cause I thought the current version of Java is the Java 2 Platform. I know we're on version 1.6 or so. Can someone explain "Java 2 Platform" to me and why it抯 called that?Reason I ask is cause it came up in an interview
> What's the correct way?
>
> I put Java 2 on my CV cause I thought the current
> version of Java is the Java 2 Platform. I know we're
> on version 1.6 or so.
>
> Can someone explain "Java 2 Platform" to me and why
> it抯 called that?
>
> Reason I ask is cause it came up in an interview
If you have these kind of questions, would it be wise to put Java on your CV?
prometheuzza at 2007-7-10 3:15:09 >
don't be a smart ***.
I haven't done it in 4 years and when an interviewer (technical lead)goes aren't we on Java 5 or 6 what am I to say, no your wrong when I can't explain why its called Java 2.
Anyway if your so great, what on earth are you surfing the New to Java part of the forum anyway?
Your a Student, no? go be one and go to the college pub with your mates instead of trawling these forums annoying people.
tommyjka at 2007-7-10 3:15:09 >
> don't be a smart ***.
he's not being a smart-***. it's a fair point. if you need to ask these questions, it's a little misleading to claim to "know" java. certainly, you're misleading potential employers
> I haven't done it in 4 years and when an interviewer
> (technical lead)goes aren't we on Java 5 or 6 what am
> I to say, no your wrong when I can't explain why its
> called Java 2.
>
> Anyway if your so great, what on earth are you
> surfing the New to Java part of the forum anyway?
he helps people who need help. there wouldn't be much point to a "new to java" forum populated entirely by novices, would there?
> Your a Student, no? go be one and go to the college
> pub with your mates instead of trawling these forums
> annoying people.
I know you think ol' prome is being an @sshole to you, but he's really not. many java professionals are somewhat dismayed at the number of people who come into industry claiming to have skills they patently don't have. it's not doing any favours to anyone - you included - to help you blag a job you're not qualified for
georgemca at 2007-7-10 3:15:09 >
>trawlingIt's trolling and not trawling!
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-10 3:15:09 >
> don't be a smart ***.
>
> I haven't done it in 4 years and when an interviewer
> (technical lead)goes aren't we on Java 5 or 6 what am
> I to say, no your wrong when I can't explain why its
> called Java 2.
Ever heard of Google?
> Anyway if your so great,
I never said that.
> what on earth are you
> surfing the New to Java part of the forum anyway?
Because I like helping people, and I also learn a lot from reading other people's questions being answered by other forum members.
> Your a Student, no? go be one and go to the college
> pub with your mates instead of trawling these forums
> annoying people.
Well I do (try to) help people with a normal question.
It's still morning here, so I'll wait just a bit by going to the pub.
And you shouldn't blame me for never quite making it to college.
; )
prometheuzza at 2007-7-10 3:15:09 >
> I know you think ol' prome is being an @sshole
> to you, but he's really not. many java professionals
> are somewhat dismayed at the number of people who
> come into industry claiming to have skills they
> patently don't have. it's not doing any favours to
> anyone - you included - to help you blag a job you're
> not qualified for
To add to what george has just told, it's better if you say you don't know something, if you are not thorough in that particular field, than say you know it and then get bamboozled by their questions. In fact, in my resume i haven't written that i know c++, athough i have worked with it for more than a year. But i haven't read it to perfection. Mind you, you would be asked questions on the topics that you have mentioned in your resume.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
> > I know you think ol' prome is being an
> @sshole
> > to you, but he's really not. many java
> professionals
> > are somewhat dismayed at the number of people who
> > come into industry claiming to have skills they
> > patently don't have. it's not doing any favours to
> > anyone - you included - to help you blag a job
> you're
> > not qualified for
>
> To add to what george has just told, it's better if
> you say you don't know something, if you are not
> thorough in that particular field, than say you know
> it and then get bamboozled by their questions. In
> fact, in my resume i haven't written that i know c++,
> athough i have worked with it for more than a year.
> But i haven't read it to perfection. Mind you, you
> would be asked questions on the topics that you have
> mentioned in your resume.
I know of a company whose interviews include seeing how people cope when they don't know something. the questions get more and more technical and tough until it's obvious the interviewee is out of his depth, and then they keep getting more technical and tough. admitting to not knowing the answer is perfectly acceptable to these people, but you have to describe what you'd do about not knowing it. they also ask leading questions with snippets of information in them about the topic-at-hand, to see if the candidate can adapt what they've just been told on the fly
georgemca at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
> I know of a company whose interviews include seeing
> how people cope when they don't know
> something. the questions get more and more technical
> and tough until it's obvious the interviewee is out
> of his depth, and then they keep getting more
> technical and tough. admitting to not knowing the
> answer is perfectly acceptable to these people, but
> you have to describe what you'd do about not knowing
> it. they also ask leading questions with snippets of
> information in them about the topic-at-hand, to see
> if the candidate can adapt what they've just been
> told on the fly
May i know which company you are talking about? A bit curious, thats it!
Most of the comapanies that come to our college ask for c++. The trouble with me is that i have lost touch with c++ after starting with java. And right now i am going deeper into java ( i mean the j2ee side ). I don't intend to go back to c++ after working with java.
Google has a pretty interesting round amongst its 15 rounds. It's called as stress round or so, where the interviewer is trying to test the interviewees patience by asking questions like "What if your wife is having an affair with some other man".
One question george. I remember you saying that, you interview people for technical posts in your company ( i am sorry if i am wrong ). Do technical companies rely on aptitude questions even after a candidate makes it to the subsequent rounds. Normally aren't general aptitude questions confined to the initial rounds than the subsequent ones? Shouldn't companies just stick to technical topics in subsequent rounds. Isn't the knowledge of the person in a particular domain more important to them?
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
> May i know which company you are talking about? A bit
> curious, thats it!
don't know the name of it, but it's a tiny tiny independent house that writes 4GL compilers. a guy I work with used to work there, he told me about it
> ost of the comapanies that come to our college ask
> for c++. The trouble with me is that i have lost
> touch with c++ after starting with java. And right
> now i am going deeper into java ( i mean the j2ee
> side ). I don't intend to go back to c++ after
> working with java.
> Google has a pretty interesting round amongst its 15
> rounds. It's called as stress round or so, where the
> interviewer is trying to test the interviewees
> patience by asking questions like "What if your wife
> is having an affair with some other man".
>
> One question george. I remember you saying that, you
> interview people for technical posts in your company
> ( i am sorry if i am wrong ). Do technical companies
> rely on aptitude questions even after a candidate
> makes it to the subsequent rounds. Normally aren't
> general aptitude questions confined to the initial
> rounds than the subsequent ones? Shouldn't companies
> just stick to technical topics in subsequent rounds.
> Isn't the knowledge of the person in a particular
> domain more important to them?
I don't - well haven't as yet - interviewed for this company, but I've done it for previous employers. yeh, we generally kept the techie questions to the first round. subsequent rounds were taken by senior management or directors. how recruitment goes is
1) vetting applications and CVs - here the company is looking for reasons to reject an applicant
2) first interview - here the company is looking for reasons to employ the applicant. generally aimed at seeing if they're capable of the job
3) second interview - here the company is looking again for reasons to reject applicants. aimed at seeing if the person is suitable. by this stage, their competence is generally a given
obviously, companies often have more - or less - stages, but the three steps above still generally get applied, one way or the other. I only had one interview for my current job, but it ran like several concurrent interviews. in front of a panel of 4. 2 managers who kept asking about how I'd deal with tricky situations inside the team, a guy from recruitment who asked all the "where do you see yourself in 5 years" questions, and a technical lead who kept continually trying to catch me out with tricky questions about patterns, design and process. no structure at all, it was like "Whose Question Is It Anyway?", they just randomly fired another question at me for about 3 1/2 hours. that was quite a good technique, I thought. tests how well you juggle your techie issues and your non-techie ones
georgemca at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
> I don't - well haven't as yet - interviewed for this
> company, but I've done it for previous employers.
> yeh, we generally kept the techie questions to the
> first round. subsequent rounds were taken by senior
> management or directors. how recruitment goes is
>
> 1) vetting applications and CVs - here the company is
> looking for reasons to reject an applicant
> 2) first interview - here the company is looking for
> reasons to employ the applicant. generally aimed at
> seeing if they're capable of the job
> 3) second interview - here the company is looking
> again for reasons to reject applicants. aimed at
> seeing if the person is suitable. by this
> stage, their competence is generally a given
>
> obviously, companies often have more - or less -
> stages, but the three steps above still generally get
> applied, one way or the other. I only had one
> interview for my current job, but it ran like several
> concurrent interviews. in front of a panel of 4. 2
> managers who kept asking about how I'd deal with
> tricky situations inside the team, a guy from
> recruitment who asked all the "where do you see
> yourself in 5 years" questions, and a technical lead
> who kept continually trying to catch me out with
> tricky questions about patterns, design and process.
> no structure at all, it was like "Whose Question Is
> It Anyway?", they just randomly fired another
> question at me for about 3 1/2 hours. that was quite
> a good technique, I thought. tests how well you
> juggle your techie issues and your non-techie ones
Thanks for all the information george.
One last question.
You said this-"1) vetting applications and CVs - here the company is
looking for reasons to reject an applicant"
Can you please tell me, which are the weak points they generally look for, in one's cv
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
I've done a similar interview once with only 2 people. A manager and a techie. The manager knew of some high level concepts and asked the first question on a certain topic. He could sometimes ask a second question, more detailed, but then the techie jumped in asking questions about the darkest details and secrets... The manager would then look through the window and drink his coffee. After getting tired of too much tech talk, he fired another high level question, and so on..
Peetzorea at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
> Thanks for all the information george.
>
> One last question.
> You said this-"1) vetting applications and CVs - here
> the company is
> looking for reasons to reject an applicant"
>
> Can you please tell me, which are the weak points
> they generally look for, in one's cv
ah, the Columbo approach :-)
depends on the job, but generally they're looking for evidence of you having particular skills, experience of working in a team, how much of the product lifecycle you've seen (tip: don't lie about that one. as a graduate, you won't be expected to have "experience of the full product lifecycle" although most grads do indeed put that down, without realising how enormous that actually is on a commercial project), that sort of thing. they're also looking at your hobbies/interests to make sure you've got something of a life, so don't put anything geeky in there. softer skills like team-work and leadership can be planted in there to good effect. if you're captain of a sunday football team or something, that's a good thing to put down. reading is a poor choice, it's a solo activity, and companies like team players. "socialising with friends" is worth more than people think, too. nobody wants a loner in their department, they tend to get bored and run off to Tibet to "find themselves" later in life (direct quote from a recruitment director). for similar reasons, first-class degrees and masters degrees can be as much a hindrance to employment as a help, although for top top jobs they're obviously a boon. basically make yourself appear well-rounded, and don't brag about how great you are. and definately do not lie about anything, you will be caught out
in interviews, I always turn it into a conversation about the industry, that I'm in control of. get it right and you can actually see the interviewers warming to you, and before they know it, they've already made a mental note to make you an offer. I've pulled this off at least 5 times now
georgemca at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
> Can you please tell me, which are the weak points> they generally look for, in one's cv1) Wrong profile for the job.2) Many different employers in a short amount of time. 3) Been unemployed for a long period without a good reason.
kajbja at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
> > Can you please tell me, which are the weak points
> > they generally look for, in one's cv
>
>
> 1) Wrong profile for the job.
>
> 2) Many different employers in a short amount of
> time.
>
> 3) Been unemployed for a long period without a good
> reason.
much better answer than mine. I didn't really address "weak points", did I?!
georgemca at 2007-7-10 3:15:10 >
> much better answer than mine. I didn't really address> "weak points", did I?!Yes you did, but I hadn't read your reply when I posted. :)I totally agree when you say that you shouldn't lie.
kajbja at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> ah, the Columbo approach :-)
>
> depends on the job, but generally they're looking for
> evidence of you having particular skills, experience
> of working in a team,
>
>how much of the product
> lifecycle you've seen (tip: don't lie about that one.
> as a graduate, you won't be expected to have
> "experience of the full product lifecycle" although
> most grads do indeed put that down, without realising
> how enormous that actually is on a commercial
> project), that sort of thing.
Point noted.
> they're also looking at
> your hobbies/interests to make sure you've got
> something of a life, so don't put anything geeky in
> there.
Visiting SDN. I socialize quite a lot with warner here.
> softer skills like team-work and leadership
> can be planted in there to good effect. if you're
> captain of a sunday football team or something,
> that's a good thing to put down. reading is a poor
> choice, it's a solo activity, and companies like team
> players. "socialising with friends" is worth more
> than people think, too. nobody wants a loner in their
> department, they tend to get bored and run off to
> Tibet to "find themselves" later in life (direct
> quote from a recruitment director). for similar
> reasons, first-class degrees and masters degrees can
> be as much a hindrance to employment as a help,
> although for top top jobs they're obviously a boon.
> basically make yourself appear well-rounded, and
> don't brag about how great you are. and definately do
> not lie about anything, you will be caught
> out
>
> in interviews, I always turn it into a conversation
> about the industry, that I'm in control of. get it
> right and you can actually see the
> interviewers warming to you, and before they know it,
> they've already made a mental note to make you an
> offer. I've pulled this off at least 5 times now
Thanks a lot George. I saved all these things you told in a notepad. It will prove to be very helpful. Thanks to you too kaj.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> > ah, the Columbo approach :-)
> >
> > depends on the job, but generally they're looking
> for
> > evidence of you having particular skills,
> experience
> > of working in a team,
> >
> >how much of the product
> > lifecycle you've seen (tip: don't lie about that
> one.
> > as a graduate, you won't be expected to have
> > "experience of the full product lifecycle"
> although
> > most grads do indeed put that down, without
> realising
> > how enormous that actually is on a commercial
> > project), that sort of thing.
>
> Point noted.
>
> > they're also looking at
> > your hobbies/interests to make sure you've got
> > something of a life, so don't put anything geeky
> in
> > there.
>
> Visiting SDN. I socialize quite a lot with warner
> here.
don't put that. the whole point is to show you've got a life outside of software, and IT. the days of the uber-geek being highly employable are well and truly over
georgemca at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> > Can you please tell me, which are the weak points
> > they generally look for, in one's cv
>
>
> 1) Wrong profile for the job.
>
> 2) Many different employers in a short amount of
> time.
>
> 3) Been unemployed for a long period without a good
> reason.
Thanks for these. I am still an undergraduate. So I don't need to bother about different employers and being unemployed. However these would prove really helpful once i get into the industry.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> > Visiting SDN. I socialize quite a lot with warner
> > here.
>
> don't put that. the whole point is to show you've got
> a life outside of software, and IT. the days
> of the uber-geek being highly employable are well and
> truly over
Oh! Thanks. I had that on my resume. I will get rid of it.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> Thanks for these. I am still an undergraduate. So I
> don't need to bother about different employers and
> being unemployed. However these would prove really
> helpful once i get into the industry.
Companies that hire people that are fresh out of university knows what they get. You are competing against others who also have very limited experience. A future employer will probably try to find out if you have a genuine interest in software development (if that is what you will do) and he will also try to find out if you will stay longer than a year.
kajbja at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> > Thanks for these. I am still an undergraduate. So
> I
> > don't need to bother about different employers and
> > being unemployed. However these would prove really
> > helpful once i get into the industry.
>
> Companies that hire people that are fresh out of
> university knows what they get. You are competing
> against others who also have very limited experience.
> A future employer will probably try to find out if
> you have a genuine interest in software development
> (if that is what you will do) and he will also try to
> find out if you will stay longer than a year.
I am just worried about the last point you made "if you will stay longer than a year". The trouble is i am going to work just for a year, after which i would do my masters. Now should i be candid of my intentions to do my masters or should i lie there?
In fact if they ask me where do you see yourself in 5 years should i say that i would finish my masters then or something.
I know i am sounding dumb, but this topic of applying for a job ( currently applying for an internshp )is absolutely foreign to me.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> > > Thanks for these. I am still an undergraduate.
> So
> > I
> > > don't need to bother about different employers
> and
> > > being unemployed. However these would prove
> really
> > > helpful once i get into the industry.
> >
> > Companies that hire people that are fresh out of
> > university knows what they get. You are competing
> > against others who also have very limited
> experience.
> > A future employer will probably try to find out if
> > you have a genuine interest in software
> development
> > (if that is what you will do) and he will also try
> to
> > find out if you will stay longer than a year.
>
> I am just worried about the last point you made "if
> you will stay longer than a year". The trouble is i
> am going to work just for a year, after which i would
> do my masters. Now should i be candid of my
> intentions to do my masters or should i lie there?
really, you should be honest, but that will be a limitation. I'm not going to advise that you lie to an employer, but look after your own interests first....
georgemca at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> I am just worried about the last point you made "if> you will stay longer than a year". The trouble is i> am going to work just for a year, after which i would> do my masters. Just tell them that you might get back after your masters.Kaj
kajbja at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
>Just tell them that you might get back after your masters.
However, you probably won't get any guarantee that you'd get your old job back! The IT business races so fast that they can't afford to have an empty chair with your name on it, someone else will have to take over your job and chances are they won't have a spot for you anymore!
Peetzorea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> > > > Thanks for these. I am still an undergraduate.
> > So
> > > I
> > > > don't need to bother about different employers
> > and
> > > > being unemployed. However these would prove
> > really
> > > > helpful once i get into the industry.
> > >
> > > Companies that hire people that are fresh out of
> > > university knows what they get. You are
> competing
> > > against others who also have very limited
> > experience.
> > > A future employer will probably try to find out
> if
> > > you have a genuine interest in software
> > development
> > > (if that is what you will do) and he will also
> try
> > to
> > > find out if you will stay longer than a year.
> >
> > I am just worried about the last point you made
> "if
> > you will stay longer than a year". The trouble is
> i
> > am going to work just for a year, after which i
> would
> > do my masters. Now should i be candid of my
> > intentions to do my masters or should i lie there?
>
> really, you should be honest, but that will be a
> limitation. I'm not going to advise that you
> lie to an employer, but look after your own interests
> first....
I will give it some thought.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
>the whole point is to show you've got a life outside of softwareAnd don't forget to put past, non-IT work experience into your CV as well. It proved beneficial while I was applying for my first (and upcoming) java programming internship...#
duckbilla at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> > I am just worried about the last point you made
> "if
> > you will stay longer than a year". The trouble is
> i
> > am going to work just for a year, after which i
> would
> > do my masters.
>
> Just tell them that you might get back after your
> masters.
>
> Kaj
I thought of that, but the moment i say that, companies here would immediately come up with an offer to fund the employees expenses, would make them sign a bond. If the employee rejects the offer of help, they would only look at you with suspicion.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> >Just tell them that you might get back after your
> masters.
> However, you probably won't get any guarantee that
> you'd get your old job back! The IT business races so
> fast that they can't afford to have an empty chair
> with your name on it, someone else will have to take
> over your job and chances are they won't have a spot
> for you anymore!
No. They would have a better position once you get your masters.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> >the whole point is to show you've got a life outside
> of software
>
> And don't forget to put past, non-IT work experience
> into your CV as well. It proved beneficial while I
> was applying for my first (and upcoming) java
> programming internship...
>
> #
Non-It, as in?
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:53 >
> > >Just tell them that you might get back after your
> > masters.
> > However, you probably won't get any guarantee that
> > you'd get your old job back! The IT business races
> so
> > fast that they can't afford to have an empty chair
> > with your name on it, someone else will have to
> take
> > over your job and chances are they won't have a
> spot
> > for you anymore!
>
> No. They would have a better position once you get
> your masters.
but not necessarily for you. you might get lucky and find a company that will hold a spot for you, but I doubt it. don't rely on that, anyway
georgemca at 2007-7-21 18:20:57 >
> Non-It, as in?As in not-directly-related-to-information-technology jobs, like construction work, military service, laundry work, mobile phone assembly, etc.#
duckbilla at 2007-7-21 18:20:57 >
One more thing to remember about your resume/CV, Absolutely, positively triple check spelling and grammar to ensure accuracy. When I was in management, the first review consisted of weeding out those who could not spell and use proper grammar. One mistake would not disqualify someone, but a host of errors was the quickest way to end up on the reject pile. If someone could not take the time to proofread their own CV, or have someone else do it for them, how much pride will they take in the job?
~Tim
EDIT: Fixing my own grammar and spelling errors!!
SomeoneElsea at 2007-7-21 18:20:57 >
Thanks a lot for all the advice. I have made a note of it. Thanks once again.
qUesT_foR_knOwLeDgea at 2007-7-21 18:20:57 >
> companies here would immediately come up with an offer to fund the employees expensesYou mean they pay for your master and give you a guarantee that you can come back?
Peetzorea at 2007-7-21 18:20:57 >
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