What is the name of my dream job?
Hi all,
I have studied four years in order to become a programmer. I remember the excitement I had two years ago regarding programmer. I came out with ideas and developed them. Ok some of them where pure ****! But I use to enjoy that time and the things I used to learn! The thing I like most was the fact that I had time to develop my ideas!
Then I started working as a programmer! Worked abroad for some time, and was nice. I learnt a lot in two years time. Much more then I learnt in four years of study! However each morning, when going to work I feel sick because I feel this is not what I want to do!
The work of a programmer sucks! I have to spend 8hours a day programming something that I have no interest in!!
I would love to come up with ideas and develop them, have a team of programmers that help me develop that software, sell it, improve it, come up with new ideas, develop them, and so on!!
What is this JOB called? and where can I find it?
I understand that it is impossible to get such a job only after two years of working, but I would like to know what type of job there is so that I can inspire out of it and know exactly what to search for next time I change work!!
I am a Java Developer, or so I like calling myself! I basically have learnt all I know in Java myself by reading tutorials and books. I know the basics of nearly everything in Java, but am expert in none, and most of the time I have to do extra research on the internet to get something done. I have worked with open source frameworks such as struts, spring and hibernate, but are not used in the country were I live!!
So what should I aim to become when I grow up? (Sort to speak)!! Since I definitely don抰 like programming what other people want me to.
I am asking this here because here is a pool of a whole word of different jobs related with IT and thus I believe there are a lot of people that can add some comments on this.
Thanks for any comments!
welcome to the real world
> What is this JOB called? and where can I find it?
The same thing your current job is called. I have found that programming is very different between different companies. (In different industries and inside the same industry).
>I understand that it is impossible to get such a
> job only after two years of working
I don't think it is impossible. Sounds like you just need to find a new company to work for.When you look for somewhere else, learn about what it is that company does and what sort of programming you will be doing. Make sure it interests you.
Also, its is called work because it takes effort to do it most of the time. You might not ever dream about going to work the next day. But I agrree you shouldn't dread it either.
create your own entreprise!
You'll notice that judging by all the disgruntled posts there are a lot of us here that hate our jobs :o)
If you want to make your own software then just do it! If you have a good idea and want help then start a project in sourceforge. Get others to help.
The fact is there aren't really any jobs where you can "do what you want" cus people start companies to do what they want. Apart from google, of course, where they encourage peeps to invent their own stoof (as long as it's useful for them).
Ted.
> create your own entreprise!
indeed
I had a "dream" job for a while. a guy - who writes books on software process, and is a member of the agile alliance - had an idea for a product, sat on it for 15 years then left his job and started a company. he assembled his team personally, and 8 of us sat in a room and worked to make his idea a reality. he was the management, and he was also the most talented programmer of us all. the team ran beautifully, we rarely had a deadline to work to, save the odd launch here and there, and there was absolutely zero office politics. all we did was write code, toss ideas about, play with the development process and sometimes go karting, or to the pub, or for a curry or something. I actually looked forward to going to work every day, because of this free reign we had, and we all turned out orders of magnitude more code than anywhere else I've ever worked. but the investors got nervous and pulled funding, leaving the project somewhat crippled. nice while it lasted, though, and I learnt more in my short time there than I did at university, and across 5 years experience in other companies
so the answer is: come up with an idea, be expert enough to assemble and manage the perfect team and convince some rich people to lend you lots of money. simple. but be prepared. this guy was routinely doing 18 hour days, 6 days a week (he was a Christian, otherwise he'd undoubtedly be doing 8 days a week). he'd be out and about most of the day doing sales and marketing, flying around the world for meetings and stuff, then come into the office and code for 8-9 hours a night
> I don't think it is impossible. Sounds like you just
> need to find a new company to work for.When you
> look for somewhere else, learn about what it is that
> company does and what sort of programming you will be
> doing. Make sure it interests you.
So far I have been working with two different companies related with IT. The one I am with at the moment is not bad at all. However at the end of the day it is always the same story, they try to get the MAX out of you!!
Now as I said I used to spend till 4 in the morning programming the things I came out myself. However after two hours at work I get fed and want to leave!!
> enterprise
I wish, already started to say the truth!! but have no time to do my things :(
For some time I actually tought I wanted to become a Technical Architect .. seems there is not a lot of code in that!! (not that I hate coding!)
> > I don't think it is impossible. Sounds like you
> just
> > need to find a new company to work for.When you
> > look for somewhere else, learn about what it is
> that
> > company does and what sort of programming you will
> be
> > doing. Make sure it interests you.
>
> So far I have been working with two different
> companies related with IT. The one I am with at the
> moment is not bad at all. However at the end of the
> day it is always the same story, they try to get the
> MAX out of you!!
>
> Now as I said I used to spend till 4 in the morning
> programming the things I came out myself. However
> after two hours at work I get fed and want to
> leave!!
then your attitude is wrong. don't take that as an insult, it's not meant as one. that attitude will get you very frustrated very quickly. even if you were to only be coding your own ideas, you'll quickly find you have to write stuff that's mundane, and not what you had in mind. getting fed up leads to rubbish code, no matter who it's for. writing exactly what you want until 4am is all well-and-good, but if the code isn't useable, or useful, then what's the point? nobody will give you money simply for staying up late coding (unless you combine it with baby-sitting for some royal family or something). there's no getting round the fact that you will have to do things you don't enjoy
:) none taken ... I know ... for some time I could avoid thinking that way by hopeing to get some promotion, but all those around me who got a promotion are still emersed in coding then management.
hmm ... I liked what you said about that person who worked too much. I do not want to become like that!! but I do not want to code all my life either!
I have some ideas, and am currently thinking on how to make them a reality!! Most of the time I scrap all that I do and start it again because I believe I did not do it good enough or is too simple!! .. but hopefully I get it ready soon ...
However I am a believer that a company can not be made by 1 man .. and to have more people you need to have a large capital!!
@OP: Try contacting [url= http://www.samaritans.org.uk/]these[/url] people.
Why don't you do research at a University? By doing research into a field (say AI/computer science) you aren't doing the same old nonsense every day, and you aren't doing things that everyone else has done; you come up with new ideas by yourself and implement them (hence research).
> Why don't you do research at a University?> ...I don't know where you're from, but in most countries, you don't just go and work for a university.
The really nice thing about I/T is that (at least conceptually) there are lower barriers to entry than in most other fields. So, pick an idea that has always interested you. When bored at work (perish the thought!), you can always devote some time to your side project. Other ideas include joining an existing open source project or creating a grass-roots movement among programmers in your organization to tackle tasks no one else has time for.
- Saish
> > Why don't you do research at a University?
> > ...
>
> I don't know where you're from, but in most
> countries, you don't just go and work for a
> university.
I mean there are very few research jobs available (compared to other ICT related jobs), and the universities only hire the "creme de la creme".
> > > Why don't you do research at a University?
> > > ...
> >
> > I don't know where you're from, but in most
> > countries, you don't just go and work for a
> > university.
>
> I mean there are very few research jobs available
> (compared to other ICT related jobs), and the
> universities only hire the "creme de la creme".
Well yes I know this. I'm not aware of the OP's credentials or anything, so it was just a suggestion. It doesn't hurt to apply either ;-).
> I'm not aware of the OP's> credentials or anything, so it was just a suggestion.He said he went to school for 4 years and has worked for 2. > It doesn't hurt to apply either ;-).Agreed.
zadoka at 2007-7-21 17:05:16 >
> > I'm not aware of the OP's
> > credentials or anything, so it was just a
> suggestion.
>
> He said he went to school for 4 years and has worked
> for 2.
>
> > It doesn't hurt to apply either ;-).
>
> Agreed.
unless you apply to "We Maim Failures" University
> He said he went to school for 4 years and has worked> for 2. Oh yea. That went right over my head.Well, you can always go back to school!
> > I'm not aware of the OP's
> > credentials or anything, so it was just a
> > suggestion.
>
> He said he went to school for 4 years and has worked
> for 2.
After receiving a 4 or 5 years MSc degree, one could stay (or go back to) a university in order to get a PhD, which I thought Djaunl meant by "doing research".
> > > I'm not aware of the OP's
> > > credentials or anything, so it was just a
> > > suggestion.
> >
> > He said he went to school for 4 years and has
> worked
> > for 2.
>
> After receiving a 4 or 5 years MSc degree, one could
> stay (or go back to) a university in order to get a
> PhD, which I thought Djaunl meant by "doing research".
But from where I come from (Portugal) we can earn much more money working in Industry than making PhD (it's sad but it's true). A PhD hardly pays the bills
Manuel Leiria
> > > > I'm not aware of the OP's
> > > > credentials or anything, so it was just a
> > > > suggestion.
> > >
> > > He said he went to school for 4 years and has
> > worked
> > > for 2.
> >
> > After receiving a 4 or 5 years MSc degree, one
> could
> > stay (or go back to) a university in order to get
> a
> > PhD, which I thought Djaunl meant by "doing
> research".
>
> But from where I come from (Portugal) we can earn
> much more money working in Industry than making PhD
> (it's sad but it's true). A PhD hardly pays the
> bills
>
> Manuel Leiria
par for the course. might get lucky and have ICI sponsor you, though. but nobody goes on to do a PhD for the money :-)
> After receiving a 4 or 5 years MSc degree, one could> stay (or go back to) a university in order to get a> PhD, which I thought Djaunl meant by "doing research".Well, you could just get your PhD while you go for your Master's degree.
some employers are untrusting and wary of PhDs. they wonder why the guy/chick wanted to avoid work for so long (not my opinion, or speculation - straight from the horses mouth)
> Well, you could just get your PhD while you go for> your Master's degree.Where I'm from: that's not possible. You can only get a PhD after a master's degree.
> some employers are untrusting and wary of PhDs. they
> wonder why the guy/chick wanted to avoid work for so
> long (not my opinion, or speculation - straight from
> the horses mouth)
Agreed: there are few positions where a PhD is an advantage over a master's-, or sometimes even a bachelor's degree.
I know it's not your opinion, but the remark of avoiding work is utter B-S.
; )
> > some employers are untrusting and wary of PhDs.
> they
> > wonder why the guy/chick wanted to avoid work for
> so
> > long (not my opinion, or speculation - straight
> from
> > the horses mouth)
>
> Agreed: there are few positions where a PhD is an
> advantage over a master's-, or sometimes even a
> bachelor's degree.
> I know it's not your opinion, but the remark of
> avoiding work is utter B-S.
> ; )
I know. nobody does a PhD for an easy time, either. and it still != good job, necessarily. my old job, we had an actual rocket scientist, PhD in astrophysics and everything, manning phones on the helpdesk. still, handy to bring up in meetings whenever anyone said "it's not rocket science"
> ...> still, handy to bring up in meetings whenever anyone> said "it's not rocket science"; )
There is no such thing as a perfect job. If it was always fun they would call it PLAY instead of WORK and they probably wouldn't be willing to pay someone to do it. The core equation of the workplace is expressed thusly, " The transfer of money or valuables in exchange for the performance of a task or providing of a service that a person or entity needs performed but is unable or unwilling to perform themselves." Point being, there is no such thing as a job that is always fun. That said, if you like what you do, then the question is whether or not the situation is what you need it to be. Understand that I said NEED not want.
A year ago I was doing consulting work providing Java enterprise consulting and development. Upside, it paid very very well. Downside I had to be away from my family potentially for long periods of time. I enjoyed the work it was challenging and beneficial to my customers, but being away from my family was not a cost I was ultimately willing to encur. I decided that I didn't NEED the money as much as I NEEDED to be available to my family so I took a job closer to home that didn't pay as well. The work is not as challenging or as complex but it is important to my employer and our customer. Point being that the cost : benefit ratio involves more than money, and more than job satisfaction.
Rarely over the course of your career in any field will you be in a situation that is the dream, where the procedural model, the operations, the tasks, the team members, the politics and the whole rest of the blazing chaos of work falls together into a place that is both tranquil and filled with creative energy. Enjoy it when it happens because it's rare.
More often you will experience little victories. Getting to implement a technology the way it's supposed to be implemented, getting to turn a development group towards a better way of doing things, being able to give the users something that makes a difference to them in their daily work lives.
I have a friend who's a musician and makes his living writing and playing music. Someone asked him once what the key to being successful as a musician was and he summed it up in one word. Discipline. He went on to say whether he feels like it or not, whether he's in the mood or not, whether he's feeling inspired or not, whether he's got a good idea for a song or not 10 hours a day every day he's at his piano or in his studio WORKING. He also said that sometimes it sucks and it's almost painful, but the joy comes when he plays the song and it feels right and sounds right and then culminates when he performs it on stage and the audience responds.
Point being, live for the moments of joy at WHATEVER you do because they are the payoff for the drudgery and the pain and the anguish and the struggling to get there and they are all too fleeting.
Cheers,
PS.
@Puckstopper: "Here, our motto is, work hard, play hard." (Sound familiar?)- Saish
Saisha at 2007-7-21 17:05:21 >
> I would love to come up with ideas and develop them,
> have a team of programmers that help me develop that
> software, sell it, improve it, come up with new
> ideas, develop them, and so on!!
>
> What is this JOB called? and where can I
> find it?
>
Try working at Google. Every programmer gets one day a week entirely and officially reserved to developing his/her own interesting ideas.
I believe that's how GMail and other products were first conceived.
Of course, getting hired by Google is tough : between 4-8 interviews, maybe more, depending on the person.
However, if you do not enjoy programming, don't even think about it.
Another option would be to start your own company, but that requires a sizable amount of money and motivation, and a great product, and a host of other things...
If you are tired of programming because you don't have interest in it, then you must find what you have interest in when you are programming...For example, maybe you like programming games and not what you do at work, or maybe you work on games and you would like to develop something different.
If it is developing your own ideas, maybe find ways to incorporate your ideas into your code at work.
If it is the challenge you are not finding, make it challenging...find ways to challenge yourself at work.
If your ideas are not related to your work, then find a line of work that matches your ideas.
If there is not a line of work for it, is there a way of making it a line of work? If not, do it as a hobby...see below.
Here's a thought...
1) Make a goal using your ideas...what is it you want to create with your code/ideas/software and write it down. Start working towards completing one of your ideas.
2) Create a library of your code and your ideas and software and do that part time.
2a) If you want to make this a hobby, then do just that and have fun with your ideas and creativity. If you want to go further, do the next steps, but don't go overboard; have fun with your hobby, but keep work at the work place.
3) Save up a little from your paychecks to invest in yourself one day.
4) When you think you have enough code, ideas and money, put it together.
5) You might be able to get some kind of prototype or proof of concept that someone will want to invest in you and your software. Maybe there are other means to market your software on the net.
Your job may one day be what you make of it. Or, maybe it is a hobby you want to enjoy.
Just my 2 cents...good luck in whatever you do.
Rodger
