Solaris 10 - impressions from a GNU/Linux user
Firstly, this isnt flame bait, honest!
Until 10, I hadnt seen Solaris since rev6, then, I was worn (then) down by trying to configure a dial up model hacking chap scripts. Anyhow, I thought I'd look at Solaris 10, seeing as it was 'free' to play with. What follows summarises my feelings after looking at it again.
Download and install went smoothly, even the accompanying freeware DVD was installed in its entiretly to add all that utility/application-candy that makes a platform usable, or more than usable.
OK, so the java desktop is actually pretty good but now what? There is a dearth of anything useful in the distribution, all but the cut down linux distros come with a wide range of applications and supporting tools, they 'just work', and cusomizing program access paths to include all the freeware bin folders etc etc is not necessary, unlike Solaris with its truly painful packaging structure.
Solaris seems to have changed a great deal since I last used it, but as I spend most days running Linux development and deployment systems I had some expectations of what I should (by now) be able to do with Solaris. After observing the lack of configuration files I stumbled accross the web 'tool' to do the configuration (there were no default desktop shortcuts, no menu links, nothing - even under CDE), I was beginning to get that '6' feeling again.
What do people do after an install, they configure the network and set the hostname up.
I personally found the network configuration a royal pain. Using any other linux distro (suse and its yast configurator, gnome or kde configuration tools etc) all make the experience painless.
For the gigabytes of downloads I kind of expected something that would be useful out of the box. Yes, I can go and download xyz from sun freeware one package at a time but COME ON! After using Debian based UBUNTU perhaps Im spoiled by the Synaptic package manager. I was honestly shocked, thinking there must be something I'm missing but once again I could not find a single reason to switch to Solaris for my use (development, or deployment).
Im sure there are those who would tout Solaris as rugged, scalable, secure etc but all of that is irrelavent to me and my usage. From my perspective the targetted user base for Solaris appears to be narrow.
I can appreciate the licencing issues involved and that may indeed be the reason why many additional tools arent provided. In any event, I cant think of any reason to keep Solaris 10 installed, I can do everything I need with Linux with less effort thanks to the range of GNU/open source apps readily available.
If it works for you thats great, Im sure there will be plenty of points and my lack of time spent (a) reading (b) configuring (c) dowloading and compiling, but to be honest, I havent got the time!
[2876 byte] By [
ajbrook] at [2007-11-26 9:10:28]
# 1
Himany thanks for this frank report. I was just about to trash a MAndrake system to install Solaris. Guess I might delay for a while and see how things pan out. You've saved me hours of grief - Many Thanks.
# 2
If you want to see a Solaris kernel with a set of apps more traditional to a Linux distribution, you might try one of the other OpenSolaris distributions. Some of them are available as run disks as well.
www.genunix.org has links for Schillix, Belenix, and Nexenta.
--
Darren
# 3
> Download and install went smoothly, even the
> accompanying freeware DVD was installed in its
> entiretly to add all that utility/application-candy
> that makes a platform usable, or more than usable.
It wasn't until after I had downloaded and burnt the Solaris 10 6/06 Companion DVD that I read the Sun legal disclaimer at http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/freeware/index.xml#disclaimer
The Products are provided "AS IS." They may not function properly or at all, may not be compatible with Solaris, may contain viruses and/or may disrupt, damage or interfere with your use of your programs, computers or telecommunications facilities.
That last sentence has put me off installing anything from the Solaris 6/06 Companion DVD.
It woudn't be so bad if the freeware supplied was current; but the Solaris 10 6/06 Companion contains php-4.3.2 which is the same PHP version as supplied on the Solaris 9 9/04 Companion.
(I was looking for a PHP version suitable for MediaWiki 1.6.x which needs a minimum of php 4.3.3)
>
> For the gigabytes of downloads I kind of expected
> something that would be useful out of the box. Yes,
> I can go and download xyz from sun freeware one
> package at a time but COME ON!
I tried downloading individual packages from sun freeware required for MediaWiki, but kept running into problems with incompatabilities between packages (compile errors / unresolved symbols)
Searching for other freeware package sources, looks like blastwave will give better support, i.e. from http://www.blastwave.org/about.html they appear to have automated the problem of getting a set of compiled packages which work together.
# 4
> Firstly, this isnt flame bait, honest!
>
> What follows summarises my feelings after
> looking at it again.
>
> OK, so the java desktop is actually pretty good but
> now what? There is a dearth of anything useful in
> the distribution, all but the cut down linux distros
> come with a wide range of applications and supporting
> tools, they 'just work', and cusomizing program
> access paths to include all the freeware bin folders
> etc etc is not necessary, unlike Solaris with its
> truly painful packaging structure.
Ok, I give up. What do you run on Linux that you can't run on Solaris?
What were you expecting to do with Solaris?
All your message says is that for you there is nothing to run other than the base OS. Other than just looking, what were you actually planning to do? What kinds of apps are you looking for?
alan
# 5
I'm sure that eventually all apps would run on unix but Ive been here before, an earlier post said it: compiing packages one at a time is possible but is prone to non-trivial issues over symbols etc etc. Never mind it takes time to find the source package from website x, install the package, compile the package, fixup your paths ready for running, try and figure out if the app needs an icon in the menus - and figure out how to do that too.
Contrast this method with the APT/Synaptic package manager a) search by keyword for app (eg firewall) from multiple repositories with thousands of applications etc, select and hit go, it resolves its own dependencies, it downloads, it installs, it just runs, its integrated immediately with no further effort. Blinding!
What I expected to do with Solaris is to be able to configure it quickly and painlessly (nope), to be able to install categories of apps I know I want but dont immediately know where they are stored, maybe sunfreeware.com maybe not (nope, no package manager or anything similar), to be able to not care about 'I need this library or that library' to resolve dependencies and just install it! (nope). As I said, I guess Im spoilled by APT/Synaptic, its a killer app for the platform, making it more than useful.
Within minutes of installing my current Ubuntu install I have an OS with, at a stroke, the latest compilers, apache, tomcat, evolution for M$Exchange email intergration, eclipse even, never mind media players & codecs. All without so much as a website trawl/comipile/fixup cycle.
In spending the best part of a day downloading installing and fiddling with Solaris 10 I was curious to see what changes had taken place since 6, and to see what it had to offer in contrast with my GNU/Linux experience. I asked myself the question, how much effort would I have to put in to get running at least a good portion of what I currently have? The answer that led to my post was too much.
# 6
> compiing packages one at a time is possible but is
> prone to non-trivial issues over symbols etc etc.
> Never mind it takes time to find the source package
> from website x, install the package, compile the
> package, fixup your paths ready for running, try and
> figure out if the app needs an icon in the menus -
> and figure out how to do that too.
Or, as you mentioned you could use Sunfreeware or the Companion CD with the caveat that you've already mentioned.
> Contrast this method with the APT/Synaptic package
> manager a) search by keyword for app (eg firewall)
> from multiple repositories with thousands of
> applications etc, select and hit go, it resolves its
> own dependencies, it downloads, it installs, it just
> runs, its integrated immediately with no further
> effort. Blinding!
Must be nice!
There are some apps that actually do this on Solaris. If they use the Midnight Commander shell on the download page I've had things like version 2 of Nessus configure, compile and install itself automatically.
These are few and far between though.
> What I expected to do with Solaris is to be able to
> configure it quickly and painlessly (nope), to be
> able to install categories of apps I know I want but
> dont immediately know where they are stored, maybe
> sunfreeware.com maybe not (nope, no package manager
> or anything similar), to be able to not care about 'I
> need this library or that library' to resolve
> dependencies and just install it! (nope). As I said,
> I guess Im spoilled by APT/Synaptic, its a killer app
> for the platform, making it more than useful.
For Solaris I'm not aware of anything close to what you're describing.
> compilers, apache, tomcat, evolution for M$Exchange
> email intergration, eclipse even, never mind media
> players & codecs. All without so much as a website
> trawl/comipile/fixup cycle.
I've heard that the Companion CD along with the Java Desktop Environment should get you most of what is listed above, but that uses the Companion CD and the caveat.
> GNU/Linux experience. I asked myself the question,
> how much effort would I have to put in to get running
> at least a good portion of what I currently have? The
> answer that led to my post was too much.
From what you're describing it isn't that it couldn't be done, the issue is that it could be done, but going forward with Solaris would be more work than what you're currently doing, not a bad assumption.
alan
# 7
Ever heard of OpenSolaris or OpenSolaris distributions? If you are looking for some distribution based on Solaris that is similar to Ubuntu, Nexenta OS is the right choice. I believe the following screenshot speaks for itself.
http://www.gnusolaris.org/gswiki/ScreenShots?original=gnusolaris-screenshot& ;action=content
# 8
<choke>That was unexpected! Now we're talking. Im surprised SUN didnt do this or link to similar projects.I shall download and review!andy
# 9
I think I would like to stick up for Solaris 10 here. I must admit that there was a bit of difficulty with configuration and such but with a bit of help I got there in the end. I have migrated from Centos 4.4 to Solairs 10 and I am very happy with it.
I expected that the configuration and such would be more difficult on Solaris and was warned of such before I undertook to make the switch. I think there is a pretty different target audience for products like Solaris and AIX etc. These platforms power big enterprise servers. Solaris has very powerfull virtualisation capabilities which Linux doesn't come close to. There is the very powerfull tool DTrace for diagnosis of software inefficiencies and such. I don't expect the average user would probably be doing things whereby they would care about such things. None the less these features put Solaris ahead of Linux in these areas.
I expect my needs would be different from the average user. I want to run an application server. I am involved in enterprise level Java development. I was origionally going to go down the path of using JBoss on Centos (Centos being basically RHE). I found out that JBoss did not support JEE 5 yet. I would expect that Sun will as it is their system.
I think more could be done to make Solaris easier to use but the same could be said for Linux for that matter. I would love to work for Sun. If I did perhaps I could try and make Solaris more user friendly. I am with the school of thought which saying using a GUI to make doing something easier and more intuitive does not make you less of a man.
# 10
The main advantage of Solaris over GNU/Linux actually IS its streamlined delivery process.
I hate that every Linux distro has more than any user needs, plus some. Littered with development packages that quite frankly aren't needed even on a development workstation. Loaded with useless development tools - obscure things that are very domain-specific. Forth compilers? *boggles*
Solaris is good because you get the Operating System DVD that includes the core OS and infrastructure for serving Web Sites/Web Applications, setting up File/Print Servers, etc. You then get the companion CD if you would like some of those useful (and useless) GNU tools and KDE. You then get the Developer tools CD that gives you what you need for software development minus all the other stuff that you don't need.
The OS works nicely after install.
As far as setting up hardware/networking goes. Ubuntu wouldn't even boot on my *nix* machine, and OpenSuSE almost made me pull my hair out before I got my graphics card working.
Solaris does not ship with beta software in it, Linux does. Any Linux distro that sticks to stable packages (like Red Hat Enterprise Linux Workstation) is deemed "old" by the Linux community. Solaris and Linux has different visions on computing, and I prefer the Solaris vision. Too bad it mucks up your drive everytime the power goes out :( They need to use a journaling filesystem, or something more robust. Linux has never done that (not even ext2).
# 11
For easy installation of several opensource packages you can always look at blastwave. For apache, mysql, php etc. have a look at the new project: http://cooltools.sunsource.net/coolstack/
bami at 2007-7-6 23:29:25 >
