Sun Blade 2000 usage/observations

Sun Blade 2000 usage/observations

So, my trusty SB 100 (which I moded with a SB 150 cpu, 2gb ram, fast ide drives) was no longer cutting it for what I needed to do (some tasks were cpu bound, some where io bound). I did not have the spare funds to buy a new Sun box, but it turns out that used SB 2000 boxes are running slightly under a grand (mine even came with a year of warranty). It has two 1.015 UIII procs, 2 gigs ram, 1 36gb FC hard drive. I thought that my observations may be helpful to others, and I am not quite sure where else to put them.

1)I have installed both Sol 10 GA, with recommend patch cluster (or at least the current one I had) and Sol Express 5/06 (I guess the basis for what will be Sol 11). I noticed immediately that Sol Express seems to work better with my keyboard/kvm. I have a Belkin KVM switch, with PS/2. I use a KVM adapter to change from PS/2 to usb, and in Sol 10 GA, the pipe key (|) does not work. Suffice it to say, this is extremely annoying if you need to script/use shells/whatever. I can get around it by logging in remotely, but that is not a great solution. Sol Express works fine.

2)2) No matter what I did, I could not get my dvd-rom to boot the DVD image (iso). I tried both the download Sol 10 iso and the Sol express iso, and neither would boot. It booted the CD image isos just fine. I tried various write speeds梟o luck. I did not have another scsi dvd rom, so I could not try another drive to see if it is really the drive or the system. I do know that I could boot a DVD image for sparc linux (though not much more than that, as described below).

3)So, I am a person that uses their machines to the most possible, and I read from various places about many people dual booting their sparc machines. I tried old and new versions of every sparc linux distro I could find (debian, aurora, gentoo). 2.4 and 2.6 kernels alike, I usually got to a part of the SILO boot that allow me to press enter or type linux/gentoo/whatever. At that point, I get an MMU Miss error. Every time on every distro. I read about this, and some people suggest they download their OBP. I did that. I went through at least 9 versions (not sure what that does to my flash prom, but no go. Some gave a slightly different error, but all referred to MMU Miss. I went all the way down to 4.5.(4?)梬hich was release in early 2002. Still no go. Some people have reported their works, so I am assuming that something change with the cache/cpus (mine are 1.015, and there were some revisions before that like the 900s, and also I think mine are copper . . . not sure why this would make a difference). One person wrote he thinks it is a problem upstream with SILO, and that it is up to that maintainer to get it to work. If anyone has gotten it to work on a box with these specs, let me know. I have not pulled out any memory nor removed one of the processors, though I might later just to see if it makes a difference. I know I could get a couple of versions to boot on my SB100, but that is neither here nor there since it is a pretty different architecture.

4)I threw in a second Expert 3d-lite PCI card (it came with one) to enable screen spanning/TwinView/whatever you want to called it. Struggled a bit with xinerama, but the following line works:

:0 Local local_uid@console root /usr/openwin/bin/Xsun +xinerama -dev /dev/fbs/ifb0 -dev /dev/fbs/ifb1 defdepth 24 defclass PseudoColor

Actually, the dcmtool (display configuration management, I guess) that you can download from Sun really helps. It set up my monitors just fine (twin Dell 20 inch flat lcds, that can do 1600x1200x60), with one exception: I could not get dcm to switch them to 1600x1200x60. They remained at 1280x1024x60 every time, even though it looked like the changes were save. Manually changing them via fbconfig 杁ev /dev/fb1(2) 杛es 1600x1200x60 did the trick.

5)I have an external usb dvd-writer that I planned to connect. Every time I did this, though, the machine core dumped. Indeed if I left it connected/powered on, it went into a continuous cycle of core dumping before the system could get part way through boot (even before hostname comes up, I think). When I removed the connection, it works fine. By the way, I have only tried this on Sol Express, not Sol 10 GA. I have read that these ports are only USB 1.1, and that not all devices are supported. I do know that I will be trying to put in a USB 2.0 PCI card (Sun has a list of some that should work桰 have one with an NEC chipset that I hope will work). Will keep you posted. I do not think I have every come across a scsi dvd burner, and firewire devices seem to be even less supported than usb, so this would be my most likely workable option.

6)Like a couple of you, I would like to be able to cheaply expand the storage (36gb FC is good for boot in terms of speed and space, but I have an aweful lot of . . . (legal status unknown) media files. I figure my best bet would be to start with Sol Express here, and try to get something to work (not afraid of diving into kernel configs/even a little driver writing), but I know a some of the new UIIIi boxes come with SATA. That means that there is a chipset/drivers out there that work, and maybe there are some relatively cheap cards that can be gotten to work. The one card that I have run across that the company claims certainly does work is:

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=132717&prodlist=pricegrabber

I will have to look closely at what chipset LSI uses, but $230 is not bad at all for an enterprise-quality card (compare it to the range of SUN/IBM/HP offerings for some of their workstations/servers). But I know a $50 SATA card would work equally well for my purposes (just a couple of connections, no raid really), so I will try to get something cheaper to work. Again, if anyone knows anything . . .

7)I cannot live without MythTV. Really, it is just great (when it works). SageTV and others I am sure work well, but I know most about MythTV. But when I asked one of the developers about a solaris sparc port, he laughed. So it maybe this is to be my next opensource project. Actually, if anyone knows of any solution for tuner cards/drives on solaris (preferably sparc), please let me know. I have not been able to find any.

8)The usability and quietness of the machine are something I would like to finish up with. I was not expected crazy performance (I research enough to know that this is basically last generation technology, and Sun has been losing at lot of certain performance battles for some time). Openssl speed show me some stuff, some of the apps I run showed me others. This is not a speed demon, but it is a whole hell of a lot better than a SB100. I can actually run a lot of the code I run for clients and have it perform better (a lot of them run it on Sun Fire 240s and the like). Very little thrashing occurs (work quite a bit on Linux, and the memory subsystems can be very different; you have to understand the advantages/disadvantages) yet. It is big桰 mean I knew the proportions, and the UPS package was 77 lbs. It is big; deeper than I saw in my minds eye. I have a shelf I put my workstations on, but this does not fit on it.  I have a Dell 530 dual cpu xeon workstation right next to it (with internal scsi 10,000 rpm drives). The Dell is definitely faster for certain things, and louder (actually, I think that is true, but more importantly the fans seem to spin at a higher frequency, so it is definitely more noticeably than the lower pitch of the fans of the SB 2000). I have both running seti right now, and they can both be easily heard梑ut I prefer the sound of the SB 2000. Not sure which one gets hotter/puts out more heat, but I know the room I am in is a good 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house.

[7925 byte] By [whomever123] at [2007-11-26 7:54:02]
# 1

Strange. I have an HP-branded (NEC chipset) USB 2.0 card. When I put it in this system (SB 2000, Express 5/06), I get the same behavior I reported above when plugging in an external dvd-rw drive to one of the on-board 1.1 ports. Namely, I get a core dump, and then the machine goes into a cycle where it can get no further than the setting of the host name, and then rebots. Very strange. Maybe there is something really wrong with usb/usb2.0 drivers in express. I will try 10 (1/06, i think).

whomever123 at 2007-7-6 20:16:32 > top of Java-index,Sun Hardware,Workstations - General Discussion...
# 2

Ok, a few more updates.

1) The NEC chipset does work, as mentioned by many people on the net. Not exactly sure what caused it to start working and stop core dumping; I rebooted the system a total of four times, with two boot -r commands stuck in on the first and last reboots (the first one seem not to take, I guess, but maybe the second one did). Crazy . . . but it does work, and even gives me the correct complaints when I hook up a USB 1.1 device to any of the USB 2.0 ports, or vice versa. The speeds are not stellar, but they are fine for cd burning or just a need for a slow space to store media files. I cannot yet see a real difference in speeds between the USB implementation in Linux 2.6.x and Solaris Express--using the same external devices.

2) I downloaded openoffice (thanks guys, since while Star Office 8 is out, I do not really have a need for the extra features and would like to have a fairly robust and free office suite available). In the beginning, it works--and I thought great. By worked, I meant it started up when typing soffice or swriter or whatever. Then I did a lot of system configuration. One of the things I did was plug in a second video card and enable Xinerma. It took me a while to see this, but that caused openoffice to not start. There was no real logging/debugging information available, either, so I could not figure out what was going on. I now I read that openoffice was xinerma capable, so I knew that it should work. The user email archives/lists for openoffice are anemic, and there was no real help there. About a day later, I also noticed that my xmatrix screen saver was not working. Strange, I know it was working before. I started to think that maybe xinerama was not working quite right, and started playing with some apps. Lo and behold, gimp2 was working, but I was seeing some strange pixalition--not distortion, just as if I was on one of my old boxes that did not support anything more than 64k color . . . and that is when I started to really look at my Xservers file. I had let fbconfig -gui set up the file, as recommended by Sun. It had seemed to do fine, but it had chosed defclass PseudoColor instead of TrueColor or DirectColor, even though it had gotten the depdepth of 24 correct. When I changed this in the /etc/dt/config/Xservers file, restarted dt and Gnome, wahla! soffice and xmatrix were both working again fine. Maybe one of you would have caught this earlier, but I just figured fbconfig -gui did a fine job.

3) So more digging into SATA support. I know for some of you USB 2.0 speeds are fine, but they are not going to be fine for some heavy use I plan to put this box to (perhaps I will be dissapointed later on in that these apps are cpu bound, but first I have to get over them being io bound). I can buy a 500gb sata drive on Craigslist now, so there is no way I am seriously thinking of external scsi or FC (if they could go that high--I think the biggest scsi drives are only 300gb now). I called up LSI Logic, because they seem to have the only confirmed working card. They said it does indeed work (with many versions of Solaris). The only problem is that the card is SAS, with all the attendant cost/features that I do not really need. I am going to asked my boss at work to spring for one just to see it working/the speeds. Also, the tech lady one the phone did not seem to know if any other cards (just SATA) use the same chipset. LSI does not seem to make them in SATA, but I know the newer sun workstations use a chipset that works--maybe the backplane is SAS, since it can support SAS and SATA drives. Maybe not. Anyway, assuming we needed two big 500gb drives (which we probably will), as cost of maybe a bit over $700 for them and the card from LSI do not seem to much, given the cost of enterprise storage. But it would be so sweet if I could get a SATA card working . . . So, if there is no other solution out there, I do plan on spending some "free" time in getting a SATA driver working. My initial feeling is that looking at Linux first will not be much help because of the very different ide implentations, but I cannot speak intelligently on that point. Yet.

whomever123 at 2007-7-6 20:16:32 > top of Java-index,Sun Hardware,Workstations - General Discussion...
# 3

By the way, I did actually think possibility of just getting a regular ide big hard drive to work internally. Unfortunately, there do not seem to be many verifable chipsets working out there. The one that had two referrences on the net does not seem to be available for purchase on-line. I could buy a couple of different ones from Fry's and do the shotgun approach to see if the box recognizes any of them; I may just do that. I do know that my eeprom does not seem to recognize probe-ide, so not sure it would do any good. Not actually sure if Solaris itself absolutely needs the prom to recognize the device (in the Linux/x86 world, but bios does not have to know about a device for the kernel to use it). Not sure in the Sun world . . .

But Sun has not made that route easy in another way. The layout of the case (which seems very well thought out, so this is not a real bash) make it difficult. First the space where I would put the drive is clearly the second bay, but it is plug in FC. The the connector on the back. If I would try to use the existing mount bracket/stubs . . . even if I just help the drive in place with ties, flipped it around, that means I have to run the power and data cables on the "outside" portion of the cage, right between it and the cover. Not sure that this will fit, and not sure if this will damage the cables. The reason for this is that the two big fans, and the rest of the cage, do not leave room to pass these cables in any internal space I can see. I am sure I am not describing this well, but anyone opening up this case would immediately see the problem. There is a space high at the top, if I could get through, but internal cables are not made to be that long. Of course, Sun would say we provide FC plugs so you would not have to worry about something like this. :)

Maybe someone would like to get creative with a saw, or moving fan placement, but I am not quite there yet.

whomever123 at 2007-7-6 20:16:32 > top of Java-index,Sun Hardware,Workstations - General Discussion...
# 4

> By the way, I did actually think possibility of just

> getting a regular ide big hard drive to work

> internally. Unfortunately, there do not seem to be

> many verifable chipsets working out there.

Rather than get a IDE interface card to work in a Sun Blade 2000, which Sun don't support, wonder if an ACARD ARS-2000HU : Bridge Smart http://www.acard.com.tw/english/fb01-product.jsp?idno_no=24&prod_no=ARS-200 0HU&type1_title=SCSIDE%20Bridge&type1_idno=2 would be simpler.

i.e. allow you to fix a IDE drive in a media bay, and convert to SCSI for use with the existing cabling. Not sure if the IDE to SCSI conversion is good enough too fool OpenBoot / Solaris to use the drive.

(I did consider using a ACARD IDE to SCSI bridge to place a IDE DVD burner into a Sun Blade 2000, but because it wasn't a Sun supported option ended up placing the IDE DVD burner into an Ultra 10)

Sunworshiper at 2007-7-6 20:16:32 > top of Java-index,Sun Hardware,Workstations - General Discussion...
# 5

Never really thought of that. I have heard of these, of course, but I never really thought the performance would be there. It says it is ultrascsi, so that is 20MB/sec. I ran a test on an external usb (actually sata drive in a enclosure that had sata to usb conversion). It was pumping out some 10-12MB writes consisent, until I realized that my switch (100mbit) was the limiting factor.:) Most of my data will be generated adn moved around "locally", though, and need to be much faster than that. When just copying over data from the FC drive to the usb drive I got nearer to 35MB, I think (the test was not exactly scientific or controlled). Not sure which would be better, in that case, but I will have to check out the price.

Of course, scsi is "old" technology. Support cost (replacement of the card or drives) in the long run will probably be higher (unless buying off ebay, perhaps). But since you are using one of the "external" media bays, the cabling issue should not be a problem. Right now, I have a dvd-rom and a cdwriter in those bays, so one would have to go. I actually looked around for scsi dvd-wr drives, and could not find any you probably did, too).. Found plenty of usb2.0 external drives, though. Sun does not seem to sell them either. I would like to be able to read dvds, and write (at least cds) from internal drives and leave my usb ports for other storage . . . but you cannot have everthing, and you might be right that I could not boot from it (if using this ide to scsi thing).

whomever123 at 2007-7-6 20:16:32 > top of Java-index,Sun Hardware,Workstations - General Discussion...
# 6

I'm required to remove the SCSI Hard Drives (boot drive and data drive) from my 2000 and most recently upgraded to 2500 Blade and after much searching and gnashing of teeth found a company called DataCity, Inc. http://www.datacity.com which manufacturers External SCSI Cases and things called SCSI Backplanes that worked great - plug and play!

All I needed to do was remove the 2 existing Sun 80-pin and put them into this external SCSI enclosure which had these removable hard drive shelves where I selected the SCSI ID for each of the drives (0 and 1). Then connected the external scsi cable which came with this kit from the enclosure to the rear of the Sun Blade's controller card. Turned on this SCSI enclosure, locked the removable hard drives in place with a key, turned on the Sun Blade and it worked! first time.

DataCity makes complete 1 Bay, 2 Bay and 4 Bay SCSI kits specifically for my Sun Blades, and I beleive they are also compatible with all other Sun Servers and Workstations.

The information link for these External SCSI Enclosures is:

http://www.datacity.com/scsi-external-enclosures.html

Glad I could help for those who need to remove and safely store their Sun Blade SCSI hard drives for security purposes.

M

sun_solution at 2007-7-6 20:16:32 > top of Java-index,Sun Hardware,Workstations - General Discussion...