Imigration from Windows to Solaris 10...Is it worth it?
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask such question(s) but I don't know another, so I'll just ask ahead and hope for someone kind enough to asnwer my question(s).
I've been using Microsoft operating systems since forever, and I've been following the progress ofSolaris 10 since quite a while and I'm getting more and more impressed everyday. Now I want to imigrate toSolaris 10, but I don't know what do, I'm afraid that I'll be over my head since I have no experience or whatsoever in Solaris nor Linux based systems. I keep thinking"What would I do? Would I have to start from scartch? What about my data on the NTFS partitions will it even be accessible in the new OS?". I think these are not unreasonable questions.
My needs from the OS are simple, I don't need to manage servers or complex secured networks, All I want is to be able to use it efficiently...access the internet (shared internet connection), watch my media files, play my games. These are simple needs of any user.
And what about the software, do I start looking for alternatives for every single application that I've been using or is there another way? I've been hearing a lot lately about the Sun-Microsoft cooperation regarding interoperability, but I don't really know what is the extent of the compatability between Solaris and Windows based systems.
Thanks in advance for anyone kind enough to help me answer my questions or at least point me to the right direction.
# 1
For play the game, forget this, Sun solaris is not a OS for the game, because there are no game built for this OS, Linux have got a better support for the game (Like Unreal Tournament 2004) and he have graphic card driver (NVidia driver are good, ATI driver are very bad for now)
But, I you want play on your computer, Linux/Unix is not made for this.
For internet, there are Mozilla under solaris and I think firefox. For a desktop use, there are Java Desktop system 3 (Gnome 2.6) that work very fine.
Your windows software will not work under Solaris, because Windows is not UNIX or Linux.
For watching your Media file, there are Mplayer and Xine, a easy gui for Xine player is Totem. A Winamp 2 clone is xmms.
For installing a software, Sun Solaris hasn't got (for now), an huge Open-Source community, that make package for Solaris, so you'll have to compilate your software. (is it easy).
In solaris, forget all beautiful Microsoft Windows gui, you need to use the shell (like MS/DOS), for managing your system.
I didn't think that you can read your NTFS partitions, so burn all your data in CDs.
And, before use solaris 10, FORGET all what you know of Microsoft Windows. Because solaris is not Windows and he work very differently.
(For exemple, there are no drive C: or D:)
Willits
Sorry for my english, I'm french.
# 2
I think your headed down the wrong road attempting to replace Windows with Solaris 10 for casual use. I am a senior Windows and network consultant and started running Solaris 10 to gain exposure to Unix. I know I'm going to flip out some hardcare Unix guys with this one but it feels like I'm back in the DOS/Win31 days (I know, I know, any variant of Unix is alot more robust than DOS ever was, just all the command line stuff...go vi). It's been since then that I need to know hardware info like the chipset on my video board and the sync rate on my monitor. I will say that the install went really well in VMWare and I have been using it there for a week or two now, install on my Dell Desktop went nowhere because of the NIC and onboard video so I've had to order boards that I found in the compatible hardware list to get that one going. That said, browsing the net and e-mail are definitely not going to be a problem, I pulled down Firefox and Thunderbird and had them going in no time as the built-in Mozilla browser just seems dog slow. I was able to get Rdesktop (Microsoft/RDP client) installed also but have been having trouble for days getting x11vnc ( a vnc server that provides what us windows guys would call console access) to run as a "service". Games, no way. You can find a Doom build for solaris or use lxrun to get any linux games going on solaris but that's about it. I plan to keep moving forward with Solaris because there are a lot of interesting network tools but it won't be replacing my XP machines any time soon. If you want to explore Solaris I recommend just grabbing a copy of VMWare, you can even get a 5.0 beta right now and install Solaris 10 there, it runs suprisingly well. Thats just my opinion. Good Luck.
# 3
I think "Migration" is the wrong term to be used when one wants to use Solaris in addition to Windows. In terms of computing environment and technicalities, people, or I for one, prefer Solaris or Linux (Redhat, specifically) because it gives you opportunity to interact with the internal workings of the operating system and software development. Unix/Linux were not created for fancy and convenience, but for computing power. And the computing power is more than just hardware, but the access to tools and tricks that make the whole thing works.
Windows on the other hand doesn't give keen computer users such options and accesses, not to the satisfaction of available functionalities or of the direct interface.
My opinion is that using Solaris "in addition to" using Windows, not really a migration. Not only Solaris and Linux requires more training and experiences and the "dare to risk for the sake of experiment" than Windows does.
I have been using Linux and Solaris for a couple of years now, but I swear I could never remember all that I have learned or could ever know all there are about them. Some created a whole database of scripts catagorically so that they could re-use the applications they already spent so much time tweaking around them. And I'm sure they will need amber time to re-read the documentation before they can be sure of what they are doing, despite the fact that they already did all those things before....
And not to consider the compatibility issue of Solaris on thousands of different computer models of thousands of different hardware components. It's the pain in the neck just to figure out if your computer is compatible with Solaris within the basic functionality level. And there are time spent to find the drivers and instructions to install, tweak, and manage them.
The interesting thing is: those difficulties turn out to be an attraction to keen computer users or gurus or whatever.... I, for one, also love the challenge and all the cool things they can do (only if I could figure out how they work), not as in WIndows where .exe files take care of everything for you, and if they don't there's nothing much you can do about it because you can't reverse-engineer the copyrighted applications.
So, there you have it.
-van
-van.
# 4
First of all I wanna thank you all for your kind replies.
Now, when I read all three replies so far I got very disapointed coz I thought -or at least I hoped- that'd be a little easier.
I might have no experience in the Unix/Linux based systems but I have a general idea about them and how they work. What really confuses me is the demos I saw about Sun's new revolutionary 3D GUI, isn't that supposed to be the GUI of the new OS Solaris 10? or is it just like the other Unix OS (command line based)?
I have read a lot of stuff and seen even more demos and all suggested that things will piece of cake! I guess I was wrong. I have read the Solaris 10 is compatible with Linux, while I saw in a demo Windows programs run on Solaris 10 using "3rd party tool" which the demo didn't specify.
What I really wanna know now, is all what I read and seen is a bunch of crap? or I just didn't understand it right? or maybe it's all about future plans but I didn't notice! And are you talking about Solaris 10 or Unix based OS in general, coz I'm only interested in Solaris 10!
The idea of using VMWare sounds quite good, but I must ask what is the difference between VMWare and MS Virtual PC?
# 5
What you saw in the demo was correct... unfortunately, you have to PAY a very high price to get exactly like that.
First of all, you have to buy the Certified Computer Model that is totally compatible with Solaris. And I mean TOTALLY, with the right hardwares and all the right softwares for all the right and profitable usage.
This issue is not for most Solaris users since they don't buy their computer just to have Solaris installed perfectly. They just have a computer and install Solaris to either have fun or learn something or just for the sake of all the troubles they are going to face....
Big corporations pay big bucks to have everything set up for them by the service plan they buy, and of course in that case Solaris works fine...
Second of all, you will need to pay for the Mantainance Service of constant upgrades and all security fixes. If you could do everything by yourself, then you just saved yourself quite a bit of money. If you notice, there's a service plan introduced, which is optional. But, when you want to put Solaris into operation just as in the Demo, you have to understand perfectly what's going on between Solaris and your computer hardwares and supported applications (softwares). And that causes the tradeoff between money and (time + effort).
This is what's fun about Unix-like operating system. It's not as simple as 1-2-3 but not as hard as rocket science. And to make something works in such operating system is just fun and educating.
The Demo you saw isn't for common users who don't buy computers just to use Solaris. Unless you buy a new computer and have it custom-made such that all the hardware components being compatible with Solaris as you intended to. Well, I did managed to consider that case for Linux when I bought my last laptop (but there's alwasy tradeoff.... but wireless ain't working... :( ...)
The functionalities in Solaris are real... and excellent. But, to have it work for your specifically random model computer you bought in the market requires more than that, unfortunately.
I heard IBM brought out new series of Linux-supported models, but haven't heard anything about Solaris, excepted Sun-Certified Model you can find on Sun Website.
Well, that's all I can add. Hope it helps... or you just go rigth ahead and try out Solaris (dual-boot or even triple-boot as me(Windows, Linux and Solaris) to see if Solaris works as you imagine for your current computer or a new Certified one).
-van.
# 6
Well, I guess now I know for sure that Solaris is not for me, still I might try it on VMWare.
I got one more question but it's not about the Solaris, it's about the Linux. Does it require the same level of hardware compatability and user experience? What about Linspire? Some recommended SUSE!
Thanks again.
# 7
Suse is a good linux distrobution, but I really prefer Fedora Core (fedora.redhat.com) or Mandrake Linux (www.mandrakelinux.com)Mandrake Linux come with a lot of configuration tool and he is very easy to use (but look to Windows)
# 8
I'm not sure about Suse since I haven't used it. So far, I've been faithful to Redhat, and currently running Redhat 8 and 9. In fact, I'm about to install Fedora Core 3, which has been recently released.
In my opinion, both Linux and Solaris have their issues concerning the hardware compatibility. However, if the plan proceeds nicely, Fedora Core will be a public-driven project, and so I think it will have a bit advantage over Solaris in terms of compatibility since with Solaris, Sun has to think about the targeted range of customers that most use Solaris and use their service plan as well. And so, the degree of supported hardwares is limited. However, Fedora Core won't have any CD-release in the future; all upgrades and fixed will be made directly to the public CVS repository, and so anyone can quickly upgrade and send back feedbacks of improvements without waiting for months of CD-release or official upgrade version 10, 11 or 12 or whatever... But that doesn't mean Linux will give you any ease or convenience of hardware compatibility. Again, you have to go check out supported hardwares for yourself. The most common thing in using Linux is you have to search for drivers supporting your hardware, which has 80% chance of already having someone written it and put it up somewhere for free or a small fee or some donation.
However, as far as I know, Solaris has a more standard-supported functioanlities that are currently used in academic institutions. Like in my university, I'm allowed to implement course-work applications in Linux, but I have to make sure it also works in Solaris for grading. But, so far, it's 80% or more of the cases, if it works in Linux, it works in Solaris.
Solaris 10 has Java System with it, which is a new cool thing. I did have a chance to try it out, though all my hardwares were supported, everything cools pretty cool. Right now, I'm trying to re-install it along with my Windows and Linux all together.
For my personal preference, I prefer Linux. It doesn't mean Linux is better. It only means that I know Linux better than Solaris and so feels a bit more comfotable fooling around with its internals.
Well, that's it. You should go with one that you're most comfortable with.
-van.
# 9
I tried VMWare Workstation 4.5, and I installed Linux Plus (Fedora Core 1) coz I got the CD for free (www.linux-plus.com).
I didn't have much trouble installing it on VMWare but it sure did take its sweet time. The GUI is pretty neat and quite easy to use, and it comes with some useful software like Mozilla, OpenOffice and stuff like that...Of course it's not easy as Windows (for instance I don't know how to find my partitions or open my data) but I think I'll survive and if anything goes wrong I can always create another virtual machine and play with it.
I think I might get more performance with multibooting but I'm not looking for performance right now, I'm just exploring Linux and VMWare is a great tool for that.
Well, thanx guys for putting up with me and my questions especially (Van), BTW do you recommend any good sites/forums for newbies in Linux?
Thanx again. Takecare.
# 10
Since you're using Fedora Core, then the best place is go straight to the Fedora Core Bugzilla and it's forum. Other than that, there're tons of online discussion of Linux knowledge in general. A search in google can get you anywhere you want to go with Linux.
fedora.redhat.com
Have fun.
-van.
# 11
From a system admin's perspective:
> What really confuses me is the demos I saw about Sun's new revolutionary 3D GUI, isn't that supposed to be the GUI of the new OS Solaris 10? or is it just like the other Unix OS (command line based)?
....
>and all suggested that things will piece of cake! I
Pretty much all Unices provide a windowing system,
with varying degrees of prettiness.
Within that windowing system, most Unices provide
some kind of GUI admin tool (eg., smc in Solaris,
SAM in HP-UX, lots of stuff in Red Hat), as well
as a simple command line.
But the best wizard/GUI admin tool in the world
will not replace the flexibility of the command-line.
where you can specify not just how one command
should run, but how it should interact with
other commands.
For example:
# find / -type f -name '*.doc' -user $LOGNAME -exec lp {}\; -ok cp {} /tmp \;
It's horrible to read. But it finds all files with names
ending in .doc owned by the current user, prints
them, and copies them individually to /tmp after
checking with you.
It's hard to write, at first. too: not 'a piece of cake'.
But at least one has to think about what one is
doing: if I were feeling mischievious, I'd say that
GUI admin tools provide power without knowledge :-)
I can't imagine a GUI allowing you that level of
flexibility. Perhaps I don't have enough imagination...
Just my 2cents worth,
k
# 12
I am using Solaris of a VMWare machine, and I get to experience the amazing progress that Solaris has made while still using windows. I didn't know about 5.0 though (of vmware) but I'll give it a look.
# 13
> I can't imagine a GUI allowing you that level of
> flexibility. Perhaps I don't have enough
> imagination...
my 2 cents of imagination :
maybe a nice gui tool integrating the command line and providing helper tools : context-sensitive help, favorite commands list, dropdown menus to modify parameters directly (path, device,...) -- sounds a bit like an ide
another gui replacement of the command line could use a graphical representation of the tasks. Each task box, containing the options that are available in the given configuration, could be connected to 1 or more other boxes to form complex instructions.
From my personal experience on unix systems it takes a lot of time to learn how to use the commands & their options. A system guiding the user in order to get his things done rapidly can only be a plus.
# 14
Please don't think I'm being unkind because I am not. You are admittedly a Windows user looking at Solaris. It's like comparing a horse-and-cart to a jet fighter, a whole different ball game - I mean no disrespect to Windows users but it's completely different. You'll find Solaris in mission critical applications rather than the desktop of a secretary. You won't find Solaris users playing games. Buy a console. Wanting to learn about it is great and will expose you to a whole different level of computing. I would recomment a virtual environment, but beware, I've heard of issues:
- VMware does not emulate a standard display card, so you will have to do some stuff in the terminal which will be foreign to you. It may put you off completely. Unless the Xorg server supports VMware - haven't tried it with Solaris 10.
- Microsoft's Virtual PC does not identify the virtual CPU in a way that Solaris will recognise causing the installer to fail. This will mean making an iso image of the installer CD and a hex editor to change it's contents to recognise it. Haven't had to try that either.
Like I say, these caveats are based upon what I've heard. If you can get around them then good.
As for Linux, people are recommending this and that like SUSE. SUSE was a great distribution, I really do not like Novell and SUSE now feels like a Novell product. As I wanted to burn CD images, they didn't offer a format I could download last time I tried.
As you are from a Windows background, I would recommend Linspire (an awful name). Sign up to their click and run service, you'll pay, but as a Windows user you'll be used to that anyway. This way you'll get good support, legal DVD codecs to play movies etc. It will feel more like what you are used to and is actually built on Debian. When you are ready stop paying money to them, configure apt-get and use it like any other Debian.
When you are ready to stop playing PC games, format your PC fresh with Linux, get VMware install XP into it and Solaris. I ran that setup for many many years alongside SPARC hardware. If you move your gaming to a console, you can get a linux-compatible TV card for your PC which will let you play games through your PC rather than on it. Then you are free to use any OS.
If you are wanting the best of the commercial world and the power of a UNIX box, buy an Apple. That's what I am doing, all my hardware is going, I'll continue with Solaris, Debian and XP by using VirtualPC, plus I can play games like Halo ;-)
Hope this is of some help to you ;-)
