512k game contest?

512k?!?! you can fit almost anything into 512k if you try hard enough!

I liked the limitation that 4k imposed, and the good practices that such a constraint highlighted. (and the bad practices as well :)

512k is just overkill, especially since we havn't even finished the 4k contest!! and some of us havn't even finished writing their entry :P

perhaps 32,48 or 64k?

this size range is relavent at the moment as well, in the field of Java enabled phones, which currently have size limits between 30k(nokia 6310) and 64k(nokia 7210).

rob,

Abuse at 2007-7-7 3:01:11 >

yeah I suppose, but I'm not just talking about little applets with java drawn graphics, I meant games with multiple levels, good graphics, and stuff. This contest is going to run monthly. And have you ever played Ski Stunt Simulater? www.motionplayground.com that is a really good game, but its more than 512k i think. Besides 512k would give you more freedom to write good games.

But i guess you do have a point. 512k is big for a java video game.

Maybe i'll bring down the size limit to 64k?

Virum, you entry is invalid if that happens.

What do you think:

a) 32k

b) 64k

c) 512k

...

javatypo at 2007-7-7 3:01:11 >

If we want to create a limited-size context, why not taking the categories from the good old demomaking days ?

There was 4kb intro, 64kb intro and 4Mb demo categories.

The 4Mb demo is not very interesting, because there is no challenge in fitting a game or anything else in such a big space. But the 64kb is interesting because it allows a lot of things, including graphics and music, but forces to perform lots of space optimisations. Moreover, 64kb are quick to download on a standard modem.

Problem with 512kb is that this is too much space for simple games, thus forcing to have big games, with quality graphics and music to compete. It's no more a developper challenge, but a game production challenge. Plus, 512kb are not that quick to download.

Finaly, I would like to talk about distribution rules. Will a 64kb game have to be an Applet ? If so, a 1.1.8 or a 1.4 JApplet ? I propose to let the choice of the JDK (up to 1.4.1) without any extension (no J3D, for example), and to package the whole thing into a single executable Jar for the sake of simplicity and uniformity.

What do you think ?

Matthieu

lossendil at 2007-7-7 3:01:12 >

> - a contest every month is far too much! evre 1/2 year

> is enough! nobody has so much time and you will not

> have enough entries in one month. you must give the

> developers much more time if you really want to see

> good games!

I agreed. We want to see some commercial quality games this time.

thunderBolta at 2007-7-18 16:01:03 >

Thanks for the logo. Suns logo has yellow in it from the background.

So I'm going to keep it at 512k as the max size limit, but that doesn't mean that you can't submit something thats 32k and not win. Any size can win. The contests will run every half a year.

Now that thats clear.., how many people are interested in writing cell phone games? I don't have a cell phone yet - im still 14 - so someone with a cell phone will need to be the judge of that.

And does anyone know of any free site hosting that has no ads and maybe php? I sick of those ads, but I have no money to get a real domain.

I'll make those updates to the 512k game contest, so remember that you've got until.. um lets see april 2003 to get them games listed..

javatypoa at 2007-7-18 16:01:03 >

well.. use the mycgiserver thing for your site, but for the applets/applications, get a spaceports account and upload the applets/apps there. It's free and they offer unlimited space:

http://www.spaceports.com/

They can put ads on pages, but not on other files ;).

Anyway, then on the site you can just use codebase attributes to access the applets on spaceports etc.

Woogleya at 2007-7-18 16:01:03 >

>see http://www.geocities.com/java512k/rules.html for more on the

>rules. Make suggestions. I want to get this site in some book on Java

>like jars.com is.

Rule number four is kind of limiting. GL4Java, Java3D, and JAI open up so many more possibilites for quality games.

JasonFeinsteina at 2007-7-18 16:01:08 >

Yeah you have a point about the Java3D thing, but the thing is is that if someone enters a 3d game, and someone else a 2d game, they are kind of hard to judge them against each other. Maybe I could make two categories: 3d games, and 2d games.

To make this descision, how many people are planning on participating in this contest? If theres not going to be many, then I will probably reduce the judging to just performance, objectives and creativity and not so much graphics.

What do you think (anyone) about using j3d and jai and stuff?

Ps. i'll try to post something about what i'll (and maybe some of my friends) will be looking for in the games.

javatypoa at 2007-7-18 16:01:08 >

> >see http://www.geocities.com/java512k/rules.html for

> more on the

> >rules. Make suggestions. I want to get this site in

> some book on Java

> >like jars.com is.

>

> Rule number four is kind of limiting. GL4Java,

> Java3D, and JAI open up so many more possibilites for

> quality games.

You are right. There should be no restrictions on what technologies one can use as long as the game is written in java.

thunderBolta at 2007-7-18 16:01:08 >

I check this forum once in a while and have seen the 4k contest. I think that was a good limit for a java game. I will put mine up there too. 512k, however, is a not a challenge as far as the size is concerned. It gives me the impression that it wants to supersede the 4k game contest. I think that was a good idea. Please... leave it alone.

Size-based challenged game is already done. Come with different challenge. Speed or technique based maybe.

And the name of the contest at the moment is more suitable if it was just java game contest.

ibosana at 2007-7-18 16:01:08 >

Okay about these libraries, what libraries that are made with Java can you use with java? Things like j3d, jai and stuff. I'll restrict it to those types of things, or actually lets have a vote: all those in favour of standard java libraries (1.4.1 only) say "I" if you want things like j3d, jai, gl4java or whatever say "O". But you won't beable to make your own libraries that contain half your game.

And this contest isn't trying to supercedeor whatever the 4k contest.

The size limit isn't really the point of the contest. It's who can make the best game with objectives and levels and stuff in the 512k range. The point of this contest is to make a good quality game with graphics sounds and stuff.

Judging: I and some of my friends are going to play all the games and give you points for certain things. Im going to make up what we'll be looking for in the games.

And if you have a server and client type game, then the size of both of them must be 512k or under.

javatypoa at 2007-7-18 16:01:08 >

"The game may be compressed using Jar format only."

what exactly do you mean by this rule?

do you mean we can't use cab files (in the case of applets and IE).

Or do you mean the 'jar' program that accompanies the JDK must be used to build the final applications jar file?

Does this mean regular zip programs (such as UltimateZip/Winzip etc etc) cannot be used to compress the Jar file? (afterall jar~=zip)

does this rule also disallow the use of additional compression algorithms within the program, to reduce the size of its resources?

also, would this rule not prevent the game from using gif/jpg/png files at all, as none use the 'jar' format :P

Abusea at 2007-7-18 16:01:13 >

Sorry for the unclear rule. What I kind of meant by that is that you can't go and use some zip format that some guy in invented. You gotta use something that any computer can be compatable with.

Great news. I got jdk 1.4 and all that. Now I just need to get j3d, jai and gl4java. Is there anything else some of you guys may be using? I'm also hoping to get something on the site about what I and the other judges will be looking at your games for.

javatypoa at 2007-7-18 16:01:13 >

> Animation/Graphics Quality - How good are the graphics /10

That would be the job of an artist.

> Objective - Is the game worth playing? /10

That would be the job of the game designer.

is the actual quality of the code going to be judged in any way?

after all, this is a programmers forum, not a game designers/artists forum :P

Abusea at 2007-7-18 16:01:13 >

I

> oh and you can use algorithms inside your game as long as they are included in the 512k, and are in Java.

It would be rather hard to write a game _without_ any algorithms.

As to posting source code, I will warn you now that I'm using GJ. This ought to count in my favour, because it makes for far more legible code. It does, however, mean that not everyone will be able to compile it.

YATArchivista at 2007-7-18 16:01:14 >

So, where are all those wonderfull 512kb games in 3D ? Are people just talking here, or do they code, also ?

My opinion is that the rules for this contest are not restrictive enough. If I really wanted to compete, I would need monthes to craft good code, and help from musicians and graphists. And if had all this, I'd rather create my own gaming company !! :-)

However, and just to make things move, here is my entry to the 512kb game contest :

http://membres.lycos.fr/sponapa/4k/

Enjoy it ! Rate it, vote for it, and then code your own games instead of playing mine !!!!!

:-p

lossendila at 2007-7-18 16:01:18 >

Erm, the core program for quake3 is 375Kb when UPXed, with minimal VMs at 250Kb in a pk3, simple base textures and a single map are 100Kb, so you can fit a very minimal quake in 750kb - take out all the speed optimisations and extra details, and you could even get quake 3 in 512Kb!

My game is 426Kb With full source & documentation, it's not for this contest, just school, so it isn't very good, but would you accept it anyway?

http://www.mektrix.2ya.com/progs/camp.htm

shishthemoomina at 2007-7-18 16:01:18 >

My game is not finished yet, playable, without monster or level.. is a RPG genre.. 323kb since it uses a lot of not optimized gif files ..

http://lexzeus.tripod.com/fp/index.html

too tired to continue since I will need lots of images ...

Hey, guy.. where you normally get good GIF sprites?

LexZEUSa at 2007-7-18 16:01:18 >

> whys it lame? cuz you aren't it it? your lame if you ask me.

Err..no. Because you can fit almost anything in 512k. Coding a game in 4k requires skill, coding a game in 512k requires time. Otherwise you'll get crappy bloated games. The problem is, that skill and time correlate inversely. Those who have time can't code and those who can code don't have the time :(.

And I wasn't asking you.

Kayamana at 2007-7-18 16:01:19 >

> So why set the limit so high, a better solution would

> be to let there be unlimited graphics and limit the

> code to 64k or similar.

Interesting idea... Although personally, I'd prefered _everything_ to be included into a 64kb limit.

And I agree with you : for the moment this contest sucks. The limit is not limiting anything. People who have coded small home-made games just post them here because they're less than 512kb. There is no creativity at all, no ideas, nothing.

If you want to develop a game, just do it on your own, and forget this useless contest. If you want to show your coding skills, submit something to the 4kb game contest, which is much more challenging and intersting.

Cheers

lossendila at 2007-7-18 16:01:19 >